Esamir

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Official Forum for Esamir, a Nationstates Region.


+7
New Atanea
UK of Zackalantis
Australian Eltebena
Ienara
New Tarajan
Eurasia
Federation of Antanares
11 posters

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    New Tarajan
    New Tarajan
    New Tarajan
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 610
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 32
    Location : Rome
    • Post n°76

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Tarajan Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:30 am

    "The Court of Justice could interfere only in case the States accept its jurisdiction.
    The Regional Government, for what we know, actually as not passed any law limiting national sovereignty."
    • Back to top
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 1030
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 49
    Location : Ann Arbor, Michigan
    • Post n°77

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:58 am

    "That is completely absurd, with all do respect. The point of the Court of Justice is that it enforces the laws of the Regional Government, as is stated in the Constitution. It isn't an elective procedure. Is that not a violation of sovereignty according to your beliefs?"
    • Back to top
    United States of Europe
    United States of Europe
    United States of Europe
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 134
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Location : Latina,Lazio (Italy)
    • Post n°78

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by United States of Europe Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:17 am

    "As already mentioned,the Esamir Constitution recognizes the right to self-defense as a fundamental right secured to every single nation. Therefore,even in the context of the Treaty,self-defense is always guaranteed. The Constitution is,by definition, the supreme law,everything must be subordinated to it. Also,if any of the parties will be forced to defend itself,it means that the other party in the field will have broken the agreements,which require the peaceful resolution of disputes.

    Also,I really do not understand your position. The International Treaties are a major source of international law. They are subordinate to regional laws,of course,but in any case take legal and binding value when the signatory states ratify them,and so down to be part of the panorama of supranational law. Treaties can be loosely compared to contracts: both are means of willing parties assuming obligations among themselves,and a party to either that fails to live up to their obligations can be held liable under international law. So,the Treaty of Zumbrota would take legal value and will be binding on the member countries of UPS and SECURS when it will be ratified,and both sides would be obliged to respect it. Otherwise,according to your reasoning,all internal treaties SECURS and UPS,but also all of the existing bilateral agreements between nations,they would not make any sense because not recognized by supranational government. And we could also extend this to the customary law,given that also the latter is not ecognized by Esamir Parliament.

    In any case, there are no problems. We can insert a clause authorizing the Court to act as a referee,and we could also approve the Treaty by Esamir Parliament.    "
    • Back to top
    Federation of Antanares
    Federation of Antanares
    Federation of Antanares
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 349
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Age : 29
    Location : Jordan
    • Post n°79

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Federation of Antanares Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:36 am

    "And all the treaties that are not recognize from the government? Also, Antanares, like other nations, has the freedom to sign all the treaties it want without the consent of the Parliament. Appears more like and excuse than a really problem, for us.
    The Article 4 is fundamental to avoid any new wars from both the parties but the article doesn't private the nations of the fundamental rights of self-defense. Consider the article in this manner is an absurdity"
    • Back to top
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 1030
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 49
    Location : Ann Arbor, Michigan
    • Post n°80

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:52 am

    "What is absurd is to assume that some of the more...violent nations in Esamir will just back down because we signed a treaty that isn't enforced by the Government. If the COJ were to be granted the ability to enforce it then Eurasia will support the treaty.
    • Back to top
    New Atanea
    New Atanea
    New Atanea
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 207
    Join date : 2014-10-07
    • Post n°81

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Atanea Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:54 am

    OOC: My point exactly.
    • Back to top
    United States of Europe
    United States of Europe
    United States of Europe
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 134
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Location : Latina,Lazio (Italy)
    • Post n°82

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by United States of Europe Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:13 am

    Europe and Asia wrote:"What is absurd is to assume that some of the more...violent nations in Esamir will just back down because we signed a treaty that isn't enforced by the Government. If the COJ were to be granted the ability to enforce it then Eurasia will support the treaty.
    "Yes,we can include this clause. However,in the Treaty will be also included Article 4."
    • Back to top
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 1030
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 49
    Location : Ann Arbor, Michigan
    • Post n°83

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:28 am

    "The UPS will compromise on this issue if a clause authorizing the Court to enforce the treaty is included."
    • Back to top
    United States of Europe
    United States of Europe
    United States of Europe
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 134
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Location : Latina,Lazio (Italy)
    • Post n°84

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by United States of Europe Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:47 am

    "So,we developed a fifth article that includes clause authorizing the Court to monitor compliance with the Treaty itself. We call on all parties involved to evaluate the content."

    Article 5: SECURS and UPS agree to leave the task to oversee compliance with the rules contained in this Treaty,for both sides,to the Esamir Court of Justice. This body will then be called to ensure the effective enforcement of the rules contained in the articles above,and to resolve any disputes about their interpretation. The Court of Justice will have to act in a strictly neutral in performing these duties.
    • Back to top
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 1030
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 49
    Location : Ann Arbor, Michigan
    • Post n°85

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:12 am

    "Eurasia has no objections to the new clause."
    • Back to top
    Vajorr
    Vajorr
    Vajorr
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2014-08-06
    Age : 25
    Location : Los Angeles, California, United States of America
    • Post n°86

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Vajorr Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:16 am

    "The Federated Republics agrees to the treaty and all its provisions."
    • Back to top
    New Tarajan
    New Tarajan
    New Tarajan
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 610
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 32
    Location : Rome
    • Post n°87

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Tarajan Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:08 pm

    "New Tarajan agrees to the Treaty as amended, and we accept all its provisions.

    However, we would like to ask to the Eurasian delegate which are these "aggressive nations" in Esamir."
    • Back to top
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 1030
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 49
    Location : Ann Arbor, Michigan
    • Post n°88

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:26 pm

    "We would remind the Tarajani Delegate that it would be improper to individualy name those of whom we referred to previously."
    • Back to top
    New Tarajan
    New Tarajan
    New Tarajan
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 610
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 32
    Location : Rome
    • Post n°89

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Tarajan Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:52 pm

    "We agree with you, indeed.
    But it was a way to remind everyone that, in a situation as delicate as this, it would be fairly dangerous to label any country in any way.

    By the way, we believe that we have reached all the goals this Conference was supposed to reach since the very first proposal by our government. We would like to hear the opinion of the other participants."
    • Back to top
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 1030
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 49
    Location : Ann Arbor, Michigan
    • Post n°90

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:16 pm

    "We will inform the Tarajani delegate that we do not need to be lectured on proper conduct. Indeed, we deigned not to name any such nation specifically to avoid impropriety.

    In regards to the latter portion of the statement, we have no further objections."
    • Back to top
    Australian Eltebena
    Australian Eltebena
    Australian Eltebena
    Ascendancy
    Ascendancy


    Posts : 69
    Join date : 2014-08-10
    Age : 27
    Location : Australia
    • Post n°91

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Australian Eltebena Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:35 pm

    The Democratic Republic of Australian Eltebena and it's Territories agrees to the treaty as amended.
    • Back to top
    The author of this message was banned from the forum - See the message
    New Atanea
    New Atanea
    New Atanea
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 207
    Join date : 2014-10-07
    • Post n°93

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Atanea Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:00 pm

    The Federation of Atanosia has no objections regarding the treaty.
    • Back to top
    Dromoda
    Dromoda
    Dromoda
    Authority
    Authority


    Posts : 18
    Join date : 2014-12-05
    Location : Kyongdong
    • Post n°94

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Dromoda Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:01 am

    The people's republic is neutral about the treaty.
    however :
    • Back to top
    United States of Europe
    United States of Europe
    United States of Europe
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 134
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Location : Latina,Lazio (Italy)
    • Post n°95

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by United States of Europe Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:42 am

    Dromoda wrote:The people's republic is neutral about the treaty.
    however :
    "About your condition,it is simple. For all neutral countries (and in this case is considered neutral who is not part of SECURS or UPS),according to the rule "Pacta tertiis nec nocent nec prosunt",this treaty simply does not concern them in any way. However,if your country is part of one of the two organizations (and I believe that you are members of the UPS),and if the Treaty is signed and ratified,you will be obliged to comply with the rules contained in it.

    So,we invite anyone still had not done to express an opinion. If there are no objections,we will proceed with the phase of signature of the Treaty,then we will have concluded and,ladies and gentlemen,we all will have saved the world.

    Here,we have the final version of the Treaty,with changes included,for greater clarity.    "
    Final Version:
    • Back to top
    Federation of Antanares
    Federation of Antanares
    Federation of Antanares
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 349
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Age : 29
    Location : Jordan
    • Post n°96

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Federation of Antanares Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:26 am

    "Antanares is happy to find that the resolution of USE was found right from all the members of this honorable conference. I think, if the representative of the two parties will sign the treaty, that we have reach all the goals of this conference. Or we missed something?"
    • Back to top
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 1030
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 49
    Location : Ann Arbor, Michigan
    • Post n°97

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:54 am

    "As the Representative from Eurasia and the UPS, I can sign the treaty whenever we are ready to proceede.
    • Back to top
    UK of Zackalantis
    UK of Zackalantis
    UK of Zackalantis
    Common State
    Common State


    Posts : 426
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 26
    Location : Hobart, Australia
    • Post n°98

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by UK of Zackalantis Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:30 pm

    UKZ and His Majesty's Commonwealth agree to the terms of the treaty.
    • Back to top
    New Tarajan
    New Tarajan
    New Tarajan
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 610
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 32
    Location : Rome
    • Post n°99

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Tarajan Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:57 am

    "New Tarajan is ready to sign it too."
    • Back to top
    Federation of Antanares
    Federation of Antanares
    Federation of Antanares
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 349
    Join date : 2014-08-13
    Age : 29
    Location : Jordan
    • Post n°100

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Federation of Antanares Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:19 am

    "The two parties have agreed to sign the treat, we have a peace treaty between the two parties and the future of Ienara is into a good way. I think the works here are at the end"
    • Back to top
    Sponsored content

    Sponsored content


    • Post n°101

    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations - Page 4 Empty Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Sponsored content

    • Back to top
      Current date/time is Sat Apr 20, 2024 2:24 am