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    Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

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    New Tarajan
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Tarajan on Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:30 am

    "The Court of Justice could interfere only in case the States accept its jurisdiction.
    The Regional Government, for what we know, actually as not passed any law limiting national sovereignty."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia on Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:58 am

    "That is completely absurd, with all do respect. The point of the Court of Justice is that it enforces the laws of the Regional Government, as is stated in the Constitution. It isn't an elective procedure. Is that not a violation of sovereignty according to your beliefs?"
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by United States of Europe on Tue Dec 09, 2014 3:17 am

    "As already mentioned,the Esamir Constitution recognizes the right to self-defense as a fundamental right secured to every single nation. Therefore,even in the context of the Treaty,self-defense is always guaranteed. The Constitution is,by definition, the supreme law,everything must be subordinated to it. Also,if any of the parties will be forced to defend itself,it means that the other party in the field will have broken the agreements,which require the peaceful resolution of disputes.

    Also,I really do not understand your position. The International Treaties are a major source of international law. They are subordinate to regional laws,of course,but in any case take legal and binding value when the signatory states ratify them,and so down to be part of the panorama of supranational law. Treaties can be loosely compared to contracts: both are means of willing parties assuming obligations among themselves,and a party to either that fails to live up to their obligations can be held liable under international law. So,the Treaty of Zumbrota would take legal value and will be binding on the member countries of UPS and SECURS when it will be ratified,and both sides would be obliged to respect it. Otherwise,according to your reasoning,all internal treaties SECURS and UPS,but also all of the existing bilateral agreements between nations,they would not make any sense because not recognized by supranational government. And we could also extend this to the customary law,given that also the latter is not ecognized by Esamir Parliament.

    In any case, there are no problems. We can insert a clause authorizing the Court to act as a referee,and we could also approve the Treaty by Esamir Parliament.
    "
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Federation of Antanares on Tue Dec 09, 2014 4:36 am

    "And all the treaties that are not recognize from the government? Also, Antanares, like other nations, has the freedom to sign all the treaties it want without the consent of the Parliament. Appears more like and excuse than a really problem, for us.
    The Article 4 is fundamental to avoid any new wars from both the parties but the article doesn't private the nations of the fundamental rights of self-defense. Consider the article in this manner is an absurdity"
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia on Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:52 am

    "What is absurd is to assume that some of the more...violent nations in Esamir will just back down because we signed a treaty that isn't enforced by the Government. If the COJ were to be granted the ability to enforce it then Eurasia will support the treaty.
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Atanea on Tue Dec 09, 2014 5:54 am

    OOC: My point exactly.
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by United States of Europe on Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:13 am

    Europe and Asia wrote:"What is absurd is to assume that some of the more...violent nations in Esamir will just back down because we signed a treaty that isn't enforced by the Government. If the COJ were to be granted the ability to enforce it then Eurasia will support the treaty.
    "Yes,we can include this clause. However,in the Treaty will be also included Article 4."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia on Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:28 am

    "The UPS will compromise on this issue if a clause authorizing the Court to enforce the treaty is included."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by United States of Europe on Tue Dec 09, 2014 6:47 am

    "So,we developed a fifth article that includes clause authorizing the Court to monitor compliance with the Treaty itself. We call on all parties involved to evaluate the content."

    Article 5: SECURS and UPS agree to leave the task to oversee compliance with the rules contained in this Treaty,for both sides,to the Esamir Court of Justice. This body will then be called to ensure the effective enforcement of the rules contained in the articles above,and to resolve any disputes about their interpretation. The Court of Justice will have to act in a strictly neutral in performing these duties.
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:12 am

    "Eurasia has no objections to the new clause."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Vajorr on Tue Dec 09, 2014 7:16 am

    "The Federated Republics agrees to the treaty and all its provisions."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Tarajan on Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:08 pm

    "New Tarajan agrees to the Treaty as amended, and we accept all its provisions.

    However, we would like to ask to the Eurasian delegate which are these "aggressive nations" in Esamir."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia on Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:26 pm

    "We would remind the Tarajani Delegate that it would be improper to individualy name those of whom we referred to previously."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Tarajan on Tue Dec 09, 2014 12:52 pm

    "We agree with you, indeed.
    But it was a way to remind everyone that, in a situation as delicate as this, it would be fairly dangerous to label any country in any way.

    By the way, we believe that we have reached all the goals this Conference was supposed to reach since the very first proposal by our government. We would like to hear the opinion of the other participants."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia on Tue Dec 09, 2014 1:16 pm

    "We will inform the Tarajani delegate that we do not need to be lectured on proper conduct. Indeed, we deigned not to name any such nation specifically to avoid impropriety.

    In regards to the latter portion of the statement, we have no further objections."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Australian Eltebena on Tue Dec 09, 2014 2:35 pm

    The Democratic Republic of Australian Eltebena and it's Territories agrees to the treaty as amended.
    The author of this message was banned from the forum - See the message
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Atanea on Tue Dec 09, 2014 11:00 pm

    The Federation of Atanosia has no objections regarding the treaty.
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Dromoda on Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:01 am

    The people's republic is neutral about the treaty.
    however :
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by United States of Europe on Wed Dec 10, 2014 3:42 am

    Dromoda wrote:The people's republic is neutral about the treaty.
    however :
    "About your condition,it is simple. For all neutral countries (and in this case is considered neutral who is not part of SECURS or UPS),according to the rule "Pacta tertiis nec nocent nec prosunt",this treaty simply does not concern them in any way. However,if your country is part of one of the two organizations (and I believe that you are members of the UPS),and if the Treaty is signed and ratified,you will be obliged to comply with the rules contained in it.

    So,we invite anyone still had not done to express an opinion. If there are no objections,we will proceed with the phase of signature of the Treaty,then we will have concluded and,ladies and gentlemen,we all will have saved the world.

    Here,we have the final version of the Treaty,with changes included,for greater clarity.
    "
    Final Version:



    TREATY OF ZUMBROTA


    PREAMBLE

    "This treaty was born from the ruins of war. An immense and unnecessary catastrophe,which,although not last long time,it has left an indelible mark in the minds of all the nations of the region. A tragedy that showed how violence is unnecessary and harmful,and that shows that the war did not come out winners but only losers,because we are all affected,we are all weakened,we all are starving from it,and no matter how big and powerful they may be the armies. A war that could potentially destroy the entire region. But fortunately common sense has triumphed,the word has been preferred to the bayonet,the dialogue has appeased the thunder of cannon. This is the starting point of all. This treaty represents the will of both international associations involved,UPS and SECURS,and of all the nations of the region to appease definitely mutual hatreds,to establish a lasting peace,to restore prosperity and stability,and to prevent similar events could happen again."


    UPS,SECURS and international community agree:
    Article 1: All nations,belonging to aforementioned organizations,agree to lay definitely any kind of hostility,even on the formal level,and to drop any kind of declaration of war. Each nation will have to give up the conquest made during the period of war and to return in the original borders,so as to restore the status quo prior to such event.

    Article 2: UPS and SECURS agree to put aside any kind of strategic rivalry and recognize each other's right to existence,rejecting any interference in the internal affairs of them. Each of the two organizations will have its own zone of influence,corresponding to the member countries. These areas must not be violated in any way,except in case of mutual agreement.

    Article 3: UPS and SECURS undertake to contribute fully and constructively to the full global development and promote greater international integration,within the institutions of the Esamir Regional Government and the international community. They also undertake to cooperate in solving international problems more pressing. The Treaty also encourages greater collaboration between the two organizations,through specific multilateral and bilateral agreements.

    Article 4: UPS and SECURS undertake to resolve any future disputes exclusively by diplomatic means,giving up in advance the use of weapons. The dedicated channel for diplomatic communications will be the "Special Commission on UPS-SECURS Affairs",organized within the Esamir Parliament. It will be composed by member countries of the two organizations,and will always be activated in case of need. Its unique and exclusive role will be the discussion and resolution of any future disputes.

    Article 5: SECURS and UPS agree to leave the task to oversee compliance with the rules contained in this Treaty,for both sides,to the Esamir Court of Justice. This body will then be called to ensure the effective enforcement of the rules contained in the articles above,and to resolve any disputes about their interpretation. The Court of Justice will have to act in a strictly neutral in performing these duties.

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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Federation of Antanares on Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:26 am

    "Antanares is happy to find that the resolution of USE was found right from all the members of this honorable conference. I think, if the representative of the two parties will sign the treaty, that we have reach all the goals of this conference. Or we missed something?"
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Eurasia on Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:54 am

    "As the Representative from Eurasia and the UPS, I can sign the treaty whenever we are ready to proceede.
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Zackalantis on Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:30 pm

    UKZ and His Majesty's Commonwealth agree to the terms of the treaty.
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by New Tarajan on Thu Dec 11, 2014 1:57 am

    "New Tarajan is ready to sign it too."
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    Re: Conference of Zumbrota on SECURS-UPS Relations

    Post by Federation of Antanares on Thu Dec 11, 2014 10:19 am

    "The two parties have agreed to sign the treat, we have a peace treaty between the two parties and the future of Ienara is into a good way. I think the works here are at the end"

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