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    (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

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    New Tarajan
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by New Tarajan on Thu Oct 23, 2014 7:24 am

    Tkhri, let me explain the reasons behind the statements you're criticizing.

    1. SECURS main goal is to fight anti-monarchical forces and ideals and protect monarchies. New Tarajan has an history of communist regime and consequent civil war an it's reknown for its strong anti-communist stance, since Communism is the No. 1 enemy of monarchies. Thus, the SECURS has naturally a strong anti-communist stance by itself.

    2. We need an official head because we need an official figure who can represent the SECURS in front of the International Community. Of course it enjoys no many powers, because this is not a dictatorship. Still, we need it more than ever, otherwise the entire alliance will look as a vague link between States.

    3. The idea to make unanimous decisions was made in order to give to all Members an opportunity not to feel itself forced to do something it doesn't want to do. But, yes, it's obsolete: indeed, the entire Treaty was drafted years ago, in a total different situation, and this is why we are here to update it to face the actual challenges.

    4. We could think about that.


    In general, we wish to push forward more integration inside the alliance.
    Why? Simple: because we need to act together, swiftly when it's needed, and this is only achievable through better and stronger integration between Member States.
    So, let me now express the ideas of New Tarajan about the proposals of North Macwick (referring obviously to the "more integration" version):

    1. I believe Article 1 must stay where it is. The reason for this is that the article provides a first clear framework which is the very ground for SECURS.

    2. I agree with the changes to Article 2.

    3. About the Court of Justice: I agree.

    4. About the changes to Article 1: unfortunately, the definition of " international organisation that all nations can join" is too vague, and I don't know what is exactly the intention of North Macwick about it.

    5. I don't agree with the replacement of that part of Article 1: indeed, the replacement is too much focused solely on economical matters, while the original texts whishes to encourage cooperation in every field, contributing to the creation of a true community of monarchies.

    6. I perfectly agree with the creation of the Council of Monarchs.

    7. I agree with the elimination of the figure of the President.

    8. I agree with the changes to the figure of the Secretary General.

    9. I really appreciate the changes made to the Article about the head of SECURS, so I perfectly agree.

    10. I agree with all the changes to the structure of the Assembly, the Council of Ministers, the abolition of the Council for Economical Affairs, and so on.

    11. I don't agree with the abolition of the High Commission for Foreign Affairs: indeed, it would be more interesting to explore further the idea of a common foreign policy. I'm not talking about scrapping out it from the hands of Member States but, really, we need more coordination about it, otherwise the Alliance will never work as an effective unitary body which can face challenges with one will. So, I would suggest to replace the Commission with a new comprehensive Article on the direction of SECURS foreign policy (something similar to European PESC. Eventually, the best idea would be to make an article referring to such a common foreign policy, then drafting it as a separate protocol (thus creating a too long article inside the main Treaty).

    12. I agree with the reform of the CoJ.

    13. I agree with the institution of the new Council of Ministers.

    14. I agree with the new Standard Commission.

    15. A wonderful idea: I agree.

    16. I agree with the new "exit-joining" rules. However, it would be good to specify that entrance is reserved for monarchies only.

    17. I agree with the possibilities for reserves.

    18. Well, this is a difficult point: we do not want to close SECURS to cooperation with non-monarchical countries. So, maybe, we could find a compromise: all non-monarchical nations joining shall have no anti-monarchical ideologies, and not to be communists.

    19. I agree.
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    Zackalantis
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Zackalantis on Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:11 pm

    We object to an anti communist stance. The current ruling government is a coalition of the majority party (Zach People's Party) and the Zach Communist Party.

    This anti communist stance must be left for individual governments to decide upon. Not for the SECURS. Instead we must be anti any nation that has harmed a monarchy or clearly stated its anti- monarchial stance, be it a Republic or a Dictatorship or even a Theocracy.
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    New Tarajan
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by New Tarajan on Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:48 pm

    We wish to answer to the concerns of the Zach delegate: the anti-communist stance is not referred to single Communist Parties, even if they're currently holding positions in the governments of the Member States.
    The anti-communist stance is referred to communist regimes, totalitarian regimes which are clearly the main threat to monarchies all around the world.
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    Federation of Antanares
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Federation of Antanares on Sat Oct 25, 2014 12:40 am

    So we want to divide the SECURS into an organisation with two different branches, determined from which kind of treaty a nation signs?
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    New Tarajan
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by New Tarajan on Fri Oct 31, 2014 11:46 pm

    Not at all.
    The organization will fundamentally be one.
    But we want to be flexible, in order not to adapt better to the interests and goals of our Members.
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    Zackalantis
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Zackalantis on Mon Nov 03, 2014 4:00 am

    Imperial Tokugawa wrote:The Imperial Government of Imperial Tokugawa is hereby submitting an application in joining the SECURS.


    I have no objections.
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    Rapau Nui

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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Rapau Nui on Mon Nov 03, 2014 11:49 am

    His Most Divine Majesty, the 317th Tangata Manu of Rapa Nui, Elect of the Hopu Maliteao Eiao, Iwa of the Hiva Clan, Embodiement of Makemake on Hawaiki, Keeper of the Tara Egg humbly requests the admission of the Commonwealth of Rapa Nui as a member of Securs.
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    Ireland
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Ireland on Mon Nov 03, 2014 12:12 pm

    Ireland pulls out of SECURS
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    New Tarajan
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by New Tarajan on Mon Nov 03, 2014 8:00 pm

    Rapa Nui, we are glad to hear about your decision to join us.
    If there are no objections by the other members, I gladly welcome you in our family of royalist nations Smile

    Ireland, you were automatically pulled out when you became a Republic. The name "Ireland" is only a reference to your Royal House.
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    Tkhri

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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Tkhri on Tue Nov 04, 2014 1:23 am

    Tkhri pulls out of SECURS.
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    Rapau Nui

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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Rapau Nui on Tue Nov 04, 2014 7:55 am

    New Tarajan wrote:Rapa Nui, we are glad to hear about your decision to join us.
    If there are no objections by the other members, I gladly welcome you in our family of royalist nations Smile

    Ireland, you were automatically pulled out when you became a Republic. The name "Ireland" is only a reference to your Royal House.
    Yeah!

    My monarchy, though still a monarchy is not one in the traditional sense, the Tangata Manu wins the Kingship in a sacred race and must prove his worthiness against his competitors ever year in the race.

    There is no "royal house" the Monarch belongs to a clan, whom they are the Iwa of, the Clans are divided between Eastern and Western.

    Would this still count as a monarchy?
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    Federation of Antanares
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Federation of Antanares on Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:23 am

    I think clearly yes. It's an elective monarchy, If I understood good how work it.
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Rapau Nui on Tue Nov 04, 2014 9:41 am

    Federation of Antanares wrote:I think clearly yes. It's an elective monarchy, If I understood good how work it.
    Okay excellent.
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    New Tarajan
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by New Tarajan on Wed Nov 05, 2014 4:10 am

    Imperial Tokugawa wrote:The Imperial Government of Imperial Tokugawa is hereby submitting an application in joining the SECURS.


    Welcome on board!

    To every new Member, please, feel free to actively contribute to the ongoing discussion on SECURS reform.
    We need the contribute of everyone!
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Rapau Nui on Wed Nov 05, 2014 5:51 am

    New Tarajan wrote:
    Imperial Tokugawa wrote:The Imperial Government of Imperial Tokugawa is hereby submitting an application in joining the SECURS.


    Welcome on board!

    To every new Member, please, feel free to actively contribute to the ongoing discussion on SECURS reform.
    We need the contribute of everyone!

    What reforms have been proposed do far?
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    New Tarajan
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by New Tarajan on Thu Nov 06, 2014 4:38 am

    I don't think the UPS will make such a kind of aggressive move.

    But one thing is sure: we need to conclude this reform process, and make SECURS more efficient. We need to strengthen integration and cooperation between our countries, and this has to be done now.

    Rapa Nui, to answer your question would be very, very difficult, since it was a complete reform of the original Charter to update it to the new situation (I made it almost two years ago).
    The debate is at Page 2 of the thread.

    So, in conclusion, I wish to hear the opinion of the members about the amendments I proposed on what North Macwick presented.
    Then, we will conclude this reform and start working on the future.
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    New Tarajan
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by New Tarajan on Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:27 am

    I am keeping discuss with Antanares (we are in the same house).....he still think he can be in both organizations with no contradictions.
    Personally, I'm not so sure about this.

    About your other statement: this is why we are going to conclude the reform process. We could then focus our energies on the effective creation of the Joint Military Command in order to transform our armies in a more coordinated, efficient and reliable machine.

    Also, we could start new infrastructure projects improving our ties.
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Rapau Nui on Thu Nov 06, 2014 8:53 am

    I have no comment on the debate as of yet. But I think Tokugawa's point is correct, I am the smallest nation in the world, in the alliance and as such most likely have the weakest military.

    Being so close to Talanzaar I would need some sort of protection. I was thinking of some sort of accord that would guarantee my sovereignty.
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    New Tarajan
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by New Tarajan on Fri Nov 07, 2014 12:15 am

    Rapa Nui, I understand your concerns.

    The SECURS Charter ws designed similar to the NATO one: it's not only a union of royalist States, but also a military alliance. Everyone who will attack you, will have to face the response of SECURS and all its Member States. So, you're safe.

    If you wish, we could arrange an agreement: NT could deploy further troops in Rapa Nui to ensure your safety. You're free to propose what do you want, and we'll be glad to answer positively.

    Moreover, we'll push forward the Joint Military Command after the voting session in order to proceed with further military integration.

    Don't worry, Rapa Nui, the monarchies are behind you.

    And, now, please let us proceed with the voting session (finally).

    We are voting to the proposals of North Macwick with the amendments proposed by NT.

    Of course, I vote YES.

    P.S.: to all Members, if you wish you could participate to the Great Royal Hunt of South Brandelhorn. It could be a wonderful occasion to strengthen the ties between our aristocracies. Also, Rapa Nui, we would be very glad to welcome your first ambassador to Astana.
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Rapau Nui on Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:16 am

    New Tarajan wrote:Rapa Nui, I understand your concerns.

    The SECURS Charter ws designed similar to the NATO one: it's not only a union of royalist States, but also a military alliance. Everyone who will attack you, will have to face the response of SECURS and all its Member States. So, you're safe.

    If you wish, we could arrange an agreement: NT could deploy further troops in Rapa Nui to ensure your safety. You're free to propose what do you want, and we'll be glad to answer positively.

    Moreover, we'll push forward the Joint Military Command after the voting session in order to proceed with further military integration.

    Don't worry, Rapa Nui, the monarchies are behind you.

    And, now, please let us proceed with the voting session (finally).

    We are voting to the proposals of North Macwick with the amendments proposed by NT.

    Of course, I vote YES.

    P.S.: to all Members, if you wish you could participate to the Great Royal Hunt of South Brandelhorn. It could be a wonderful occasion to strengthen the ties between our aristocracies. Also, Rapa Nui, we would be very glad to welcome your first ambassador to Astana.

    Okay excellent!

    Tokugawa is holding a conference with my leader to determine our defense co-ordination. Perhaps you could join us. I also feel an accord signed with myself between you two which could integrate our defense systems even more.

    I feel such an accord would entail the following.

    1. The establishing of a joint Military Command in Rapa Nui, between the three of us. I have no airforce, so perhaps one of you could take responsibility for that.

    2. The accord could mandate that Rapa Nui require your approval before declaring war, that would only be if the joint military command succeeds.

    3. Perhaps we could sign a clause detailing your commitment to maintaining my sovereignty, on top of the SECURS treaty this could act as almost a "second" layer of protection from UPS or any nation.
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    Zackalantis
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by Zackalantis on Sat Nov 08, 2014 1:59 pm

    We don't mind helping you with an airforce and a bavy. We would also like to help you in scientific technology. The UKZ's science is most developed in the life science field. We could certainly help you there.
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    Re: (SECURS) Security and Economical Union of Royalist States

    Post by New Tarajan on Sat Nov 08, 2014 11:34 pm

    Zackalantis wrote:We don't mind helping you with an airforce and a bavy. We would also like to help you in scientific technology. The UKZ's science is most developed in the life science field. We could certainly help you there.

    And so all the other Members will do.

    Don't worry Rapa Nui: after the voting, I was going to propose a new Protocol about Scientific Cooperation, which I believe would be perfect for our purposes.

    About the protection of your sovereignty: it's already under the Charter clauses, valid for every member. So you have not to worry.

    Also, our government is deeply glad to hear about the recent moves of Tokugawa and Rapa Nui.

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