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    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

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    Kaevi
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi on Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:03 am

    Since it seems we have reached the end to a debate, I think we may want to send the most recently revised version of the draft to the admins for final review. Since there is no government to speak of as of now, it is really to their discretion whether or not to implement the draft immediately.
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    North Macwick

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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by North Macwick on Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:30 am

    Talanzaar wrote:Chancellor and President can be elected and re-elected. They  have to sit out 1 term if they want to run for a third term. Then they can be elected and re-elected again, so on and so forth.

    Listen, we are spending way to much time on this. We've got the major ideas down and we don't need to fuss over what words we should and shouldn't use. Its good if we have the major ideas down, details can be sorted out after we establish a government.
    Yes you are correct the term is “re-elected” and so should be used in the constitution. Time getting it right now will be time saved when you have to spend time interpreting the constitution (not of course that the draft constitution states who can do this) and then getting the necessary agreement to go through the long-winded method of amending the constitution. I thought that was the point in have a constitutional convention – to get it right!

    With regard to the system of PR I was referring to - Tikhri posted on the RMB and here - http://esamirforum.forumotion.net/t71-parliament his suggestion for the use of a two vote method. I think it might be used for the Scottish Parliament. I thought there was support for it. I would have liked to see if it could have worked in NS. I wouldn’t think it has been tried here much or even at all.

    I would have liked to see you have say a 12 seat one chamber Parliament with 6 separate seats called say NE NW W E SE and SW with separate nominations to stand in each seat and a top up list for the alternative vote. Hopefully you would let people stand in more than one seat, but I think there should be a limit say 4.

    To make the system work you would need the voters to register to vote in one of the six seats. Then they can vote for one of the candidates in their seat and have an “alternative” vote for the top-up party list system.

    This is of course very complicated but it did get lots of support on the RMB.

    I thought the Alternative Vote system was different from the Alternative Transfer Vote system but according to Electoral Reform Society it isn’t. Here is their guide  http://www.crosenstiel.webspace.virginmedia.com/stvrules/av/index.htm

    Hopefully the person conducting these elections will remind votes that they can continue to express their preferences until there are no candidates without a preference, but they can stop sooner.

    Whoever decided you wanted to elect members of Parliament by FPTP method really can’t have understood it. In the UK until I think 1885 we had two member constituencies. Currently for local elections we have lots of three-member wards. With the FPTP system voters are given the same number of votes as there are candidates. So for us – 5 for the Senate and 7 for the Assembly. This often means one party wins all the seats and all other parties win none. I can’t believe this is what anyone here would want.

    The only voting system I have seen used on forums has no name as far as I can tell. If there is one position to fill, voters have one vote and the winner is the one with a plurality of votes. This means if there are four candidates the winner could win with nearly three-quarters of the voters having voted for someone else. This is why I like ATV.

    For multiple member seats voters still only have one vote and the winner is still those with a plurality of votes. However because voters are electing individuals these people are often members of different political parties. If say 5 people were being elected and there were 10 candidates the number of people who voted for defeated candidates will be less than half. (I hope I have explained this clearly).

    Oh by the way what about Justices?

    Therefore I suggest you change Article 7 assuming we want something like you were trying in the General election area.

    “General Elections shall be held every two months in the last week of the final month in which the current government is in power. They shall be elected by a ballot. Candidates can stand either as a member of a Political Party or as an Independent. The elections for President, Chancellor and Chief Justice shall use the Alternative Vote system. Elections where more than one position is to be filled will use a system where the voter can vote either for an Independent or a Political Party. Political Parties will list their candidates in order. The positions will be allocated in proportion to the votes cast for each party and if a party didn’t field enough candidates the next party still with candidates will gain the position. Vacancies for these positions will be filled with reference to the last election result and bye-elections held only once all candidates in that election have either been elected or withdrawn. Such bye-elections if for one position shall use the First Past the Post voting method.”

    I hope I haven’t misunderstood what you were using. I think the UK might use a similar system for filling vacancies to the EU Parliament. Say a political party gets two people elected but before the next “General” Election one resigns. Then the vacancy is filled by the next person on that political party’s list at the time of the previous election. Please let me know if you haven’t understood?
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    Reisal
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:47 am

    "General Elections shall be held every two months in the last week of the final month in which the current government is in power. They shall be elected by a ballot. Candidates can stand either as a member of a Political Party or as an Independent. The President, Chancellor and the Chief Justice will be directly elected by nations. Elections where more than one position is to be filled will use a system where the voter can vote either for an Independent or a Political Party. Political Parties will list their candidates in order. The positions will be allocated in proportion to the votes cast for each party and if a party didn’t field enough candidates the next party still with candidates will gain the position. Vacancies for these positions will be filled with reference to the last election result and bye-elections held only once all candidates in that election have either been elected or withdrawn. Such bye-elections if for one position shall use the First Past the Post voting method"

    We are using party-list for those running with a party, but independent candidates have to be directly elected.

    And I like the by-election idea.
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    Reisal
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Tue Aug 19, 2014 9:47 am

    Looks like we are done here. Thank you to everyone who contributed ideas  Very Happy 
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    Eurasia
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:12 am

    Indeed. Thanks to everyone for participating! Make sure to participate in government if you so choose!
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    Reisal
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Tue Aug 19, 2014 10:20 am

    And North Macwick, I'm sure you have alot more to add Razz I suggest you post everything else you want to add now so we can consider it and maybe add it in after a government is establish. Thanks again for your help!
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    North Macwick

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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by North Macwick on Wed Aug 20, 2014 6:08 am

    Talanzaar wrote:"General Elections shall be held every two months in the last week of the final month in which the current government is in power. They shall be elected by a ballot. Candidates can stand either as a member of a Political Party or as an Independent. The  President, Chancellor and the Chief Justice will be directly elected by nations. Elections where more than one position is to be filled will use a system where the voter can vote either for an Independent or a Political Party. Political Parties will list their candidates in order. The positions will be allocated in proportion to the votes cast for each party and if a party didn’t field enough candidates the next party still with candidates will gain the position. Vacancies for these positions will be filled with reference to the last election result and bye-elections held only once all candidates in that election have either been elected or withdrawn. Such bye-elections if for one position shall use the First Past the Post voting method"

    We are using party-list for those running with a party, but independent candidates have to be directly elected.

    And I like the by-election idea.
    When I first saw this I thought you were asking for all of what I suggested to be included in the constitution. I see you are including my suggestion for multiple seat elections and removing the Alternative vote from the single seat elections. You could to make this clear and have “The President, Chancellor and the Chief Justice will be elected by the First Past the Post voting method.”

    As my points raised yesterday haven’t been addressed maybe I need to be more specific. (See previous posts for why I am suggesting these changes.)

    Article 1

    The people of Esamir, due to past experience, hereby proudly announces the vital separation of the Founder from the Government of Esamir. The Founder shall be an shared account operated by 5 chosen nations which will only be a transparent body tasked with administering the region of Esamir and forum. These 5 people shall be known as The Share Founder Users or Admins. The Share Founder Users shall have no power whatsoever in the government or roleplaying.  Any of the five nations given access to The Designer may decide to give up the power of the Founder but the remaining Share Founder Users must complete the process of appointing a nation to the vacant position within two months. Failure to do so within the set time period shall give power to the legislature to appoint a nation to the post with bicameral approval. As a Shared Founder, it is a rotating seat, meaning that any of the five nations may have access at any time, usually identifying themselves when they post for the general population. As Share Founder Users, they have access to the Founder abilities limited by the Government to which the Founder serves. A nation may have access to the Founder revoked with bicameral approval from the legislature

    Article 2

    3. The Security Senate which is the upper house of Parliament, shall be tasked with proposing and voting on legislation. The main function of the Senate is to deal with legislation specifically dealing with interregional issues and matters of security. The Senators are elected for a term of two months and are eligible for re-election. The minimum number of Senators is 5.

    4. The Esamir Assembly, or the lower house, is the primary body of Parliament. The main task of the Assembly is to draft and vote on all legislation affecting roleplaying in Esamir. In addition to this the Assembly will also elect a Chancellor, as well as approving Chancellor and Presidential appointments to represent the Esamir Government. The Assembly Members are elected for a term of two months and are eligible for re-election. The minimum number of Assembly Members is 7.

    Members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and Shared Founder Users may be impeached for improper conduct. To be impeached the Esamir Assembly first must consider impeachment charges. If the Assembly continues with the charges, a joint sitting of the entire government without the official being impeached, shall control the trial. If the official is found guilty via a two-thirds majority vote then he/she will be stripped of his/her position and subject to further punishment if necessary.

    Also changed “disorderly” to “improper” so it agrees with Article 4 clause 1.

    Article 4

    1. The Chancellor as the Head of the Government of Esamir has the primary duty of overseeing the daily operations of the Government. The primary role of that duty is to coordinate the functions of the Council of Ministers, especially the Ministers of Recruitment and Internal Affairs. The Chancellor is elected to a two month term by members of the Esamir Assembly and is consecutively re-electable only once. At the beginning of the Chancellor’s term, he/she will appoint those said Ministers that will be approved by the Assembly. The Chancellor may also introduce legislation into Parliament to be voted on. The Chancellor may be removed from office by a vote of no-confidence by a two-thirds majority vote by the Assembly.  If the Chancellor has committed improper conduct he/she may be impeached by a two-thirds majority vote by a joint sitting of the Government.[/size]

    Article 5

    2. The Chief Justice is the leader of the Judiciary. The Chief Justice is elected for a term of 6 months and is eligible for re-election. The CJ will announce the decision of the Jury as well as overseeing the General Elections.

    3. There are to be a minimum of four Associate Justices. The Associate Justices are elected for a term of 2 months and are eligible for re-election. They will support the Chief Justice in civil cases by deciding the outcome. If the Chief of Justice is being elected an Associate Justice will oversee the General Elections.

    I think the Justices not the Jury should set the punishment otherwise what at all these Associate Justices doing?

    6. Members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers if found guilty in a court case may be removed from office by the Judiciary as part of the sentence for a specified time.

    7. All the Justices together shall have the power to make rulings on the interpretation of the constitution and laws.


    Article 8

    1. Amending the Constitution occurs through a Constitutional Convention, which shall be called by three members of Parliament, which shall include at least one member from each house. At the Convention nations submit and discuss amendments to the Constitution. After due acceptance of the Amendment by a two-thirds majority vote from a joint sitting of Parliament, it will be added to the Constitution.
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    Vajorr
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:10 am

    The Current Constitution is here
    http://esamirforum.forumotion.net/t90-esamir-constitution-in-test#950

    I implemented it all but I edited the edit for the first article because the line "The Share Founder Users shall have no power whatsoever in the government or roleplaying." prohibits us from playing at all
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:26 am

    General elections will begin soon.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:35 am

    Should I call the Executive Branch "the Cabinet"?
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    Kaevi
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi on Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:39 am

    Planita wrote:Should I call the Executive Branch "the Cabinet"?

    I wouldn't.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Wed Aug 20, 2014 8:50 am

    Planita wrote:Should I call the Executive Branch "the Cabinet"?

    No, you shouldn't.
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    North Macwick

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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by North Macwick on Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:41 am

    I saw this on the RMB.
    talanzaar wrote:The most recent ones proposed by North Macwick too?

    Planita wrote:The Current Constitution is here
    http://esamirforum.forumotion.net/t90-esamir-constitution-in-test#950

    I implemented it all but I edited the edit for the first article because the line "The Share Founder Users shall have no power whatsoever in the government or roleplaying." prohibits us from playing at all
    Whoops! Sorry.

    I am happy that it appears all my suggestions are going to be included, but a couple haven’t been included in the draft that Planita posted the link for.

    Article I

    The Founder shall be an shared account operated by 5 chosen nations which will only be a transparent body tasked with administering the region of Esamir and forum.

    Article 5

    There was no answer to my question what do the Justices do if the Jury sets the punishment?

    Possible solution delete “and punishment” in clause 4 and add in clause 2 “The Chief Justice and the Associate Justices set the sentences once someone is found guilty by the jury.”

    Clause 6 uses “Shared Founder Controller” and I think it should be “Shared Founder User”

    Has it been agreed to have Article 7 as:

    "General Elections shall be held every two months in the last week of the final month in which the current government is in power. They shall be elected by a ballot. Candidates can stand either as a member of a Political Party or as an Independent. The  President, Chancellor and the Chief Justice will be elected by First Past the Post voting method. Elections where more than one position is to be filled will use a system where the voter can vote either for an Independent or a Political Party. Political Parties will list their candidates in order. The positions will be allocated in proportion to the votes cast for each party and if a party didn’t field enough candidates the next party still with candidates will gain the position. Vacancies for these positions will be filled with reference to the last election result and bye-elections held only once all candidates in that election have either been elected or withdrawn. Such bye-elections if for one position shall use the First Past the Post voting method."
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    Reisal
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:35 am

    Good job for including how elections will be carried out. I'm sure Plantia will add them in soon.
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    New Tarajan
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by New Tarajan on Wed Aug 20, 2014 10:43 am

    Maybe we could add it as an amendment to the Constitution.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Wed Aug 20, 2014 11:08 am

    Done
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:47 am

    This thread has been moved to the archives.

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