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    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

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    New Tarajan
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by New Tarajan on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:26 am

    I agree with Kaevi. Unfortunately, we need to count on our actual numbers, but we could easily provide our Constitution with the possibility to further expand in the future our judicial body.

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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:32 am

    Kaevi wrote:
    Talanzaar wrote:
    Exactly. Our current numbers  needs to be cut down.

    Lets get the essentials down first:

    We need the Chancellor and the  President --- 2

    We also need a chief Justice --- 3

    Then we need asscociate justices (I think there should be 3) --- 7

    Lower house needs to be cut down, maybe 7 seats --- 14

    Upper house should have 5 seats --- 19

    19 nations is a fair size for a region like us

    Three associate justices, plus the chief would give an even amount in the judiciary. This could make verdicts difficult when the court is evenly divided. I say 4 associates with a chief.

    Although your numbers are the most realistic of what we're able to get as of now, we may want to include a clause that adds a certain amount of seats to the upper and lower houses for every 200 nations who join the region. After 500 or so nations reside in the region, the judiciary would add two associate seats. Whether or not we will ever reach this amount is uncertain, but at least we would have a plan in place.
    Oh, sorry, didn't realize that, your right. And of course, as the region grows, so should the size of government.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:37 am

    So, changes to be noted.

    - Elections are held every 2 or 3 months, admins can choose either
    - Number of electable offices cut down to 19 (1 Chancellor, 1 President, 1 Chief Justice, 4 Associate Justices, 7 Lower House Members, 5 Upper House Members)
    - Members of Lower House, Upper House and Chief/Associate Justices can run for a term as much times as they want
    -Chancellor/President can run for 2 consecutive terms, but must sit out 1 term in order to run again
    -The Government size will grow/shrink with population
    I've read through the constitution again and have no problem with whats there. Hopefully it will be completed because we seriously need to be done with this already.


    Last edited by Talanzaar on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:40 am

    Talanzaar wrote:So, changes to be noted.

    - Elections are held every 2 or 3 months, admins can choose either
    - Number of electable offices cut down to 20 (1 Chancellor, 1 President, 1 Chief Justice, 3 Associate Justices, 7 Lower House Members, 5 Upper House Members)
    - Members of Lower House, Upper House and Chief/Associate Justices can run for a term as much times as they want
    -Chancellor/President can run for 2 consecutive terms, but must sit out 1 term in order to run again

    I've read through the constitution again and have no problem with whats there. Hopefully it will be completed because we seriously need to be done with this already.

    *4 associate justices at start
    *gov't grows with region population

    Yeah, we need to wrap this up.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:42 am

    Kaevi wrote:
    Talanzaar wrote:So, changes to be noted.

    - Elections are held every 2 or 3 months, admins can choose either
    - Number of electable offices cut down to 20 (1 Chancellor, 1 President, 1 Chief Justice, 3 Associate Justices, 7 Lower House Members, 5 Upper House Members)
    - Members of Lower House, Upper House and Chief/Associate Justices can run for a term as much times as they want
    -Chancellor/President can run for 2 consecutive terms, but must sit out 1 term in order to run again

    I've read through the constitution again and have no problem with whats there. Hopefully it will be completed because we seriously need to be done with this already.

    *4 associate justices at start
    *gov't grows with region population

    Yeah, we need to wrap this up.
    Oops, I'll edit it
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Australian Eltebena on Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:08 am

    This all sounds good to me. Let's get this happening!
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:28 pm

    Ok I have made the changes. If anyone have problems with it say it now
    Constitution:


    Preamble
    We, the nations of Esamir, on this day of August 19th 2014, do pledge that we will live up to our creed in this Constitution. We will be a beacon to the world for our advocacy of Truth, Justice, and Freedom. This Constitution will be the permanent, yet amendable, document from which the Region will function.


    Article 1: Government Operations
    1. The people of Esamir are proud to establish a democratic multiparty government to rule over this region. We also wish this Constitution to be liquid to reflect needed changes in the region.

    2. The people of Esamir, due to past experience, hereby proudly announces the vital separation of the Founder from the Government of Esamir. The Founder shall be an shared account operated by 5 chosen nations which will only be a transparent body tasked with administering the region of Esamir. The Founder shall have no power whatsoever in the government or roleplaying.  Any of the five nations given access to The Designer may decide to give up the power of the Founder but the remaining members of the Founder must complete the process of appointing a nation to the vacant position within two months. Failure to do so within the set time period shall give power to the legislature to appoint a nation to the post with bicameral approval. As a Shared Founder, it is a rotating seat, meaning that any of the five nations may have access at any time, usually identifying themselves when they post for the general population. As Founder, they have access to the Founder abilities limited by the Government to which the Founder serves. A nation may have access to the Founder revoked with bicameral approval from the legislature.


    Article 2: Legislative Functions
    1. The Legislature is divided into a bicameral, or 2 chambered, legislature called Parliament. These 2 chambers are Security Senate and the Esamir Assembly. The number of the seats of both Houses shall change in response to the number of active nations in the region.

    2. A member of Parliament, to be known as a MP, is an individual responsible to drafting and voting on potential legislation. To qualify as a MP, a candidate must be in the region for at least a week and have a verified forum account.

    3. The Security Senate which is the upper house of Parliament, shall be tasked with proposing and voting on legislation. The main function of the Senate is to deal with legislation specifically dealing with interregional issues and matters of security. The Senators of the 5 seat Senate shall have a two month term.

    4. The Esamir Assembly, or the lower house, is the primary body of Parliament. The main task of the Assembly is to draft and vote on all legislation affecting roleplaying in Esamir. In addition to this the Assembly will also elect a Chancellor, as well as approving Chancellor and Presidential appointments to represent the Esamir Government. The 7 Assembly members will have two month terms.

    5. In the case of a official committing disorderly conduct, the official may be impeached. To be impeached the Esamir Assembly first must consider impeachment charges. If the Assembly continues with the charges, a joint sitting of the entire government without the official being impeached, shall control the trial. If the official is found guilty via a two-thirds majority vote then he/she will be stripped of his/her position and subject to further punishment if necessary.

    6. For every 150 nations who join after the region reaches 150 member nations, the Esamir Assembly will gain two seats. The seat number will go down by two for every 150 nations who leave until the base is reached at seven seats. The maximum number of possible seats shall be fifteen.
     
    7. For every 150 nations who join after the region reaches 150 member nations, the Security Senate will gain two seats. The seat number will go down by two for every 150 nations who leave until the base is reached at five seats. The maximum number of possible seats shall be nine.
     
    8. The a player's main nation may not be a member of both houses at the same time and changes in seat number will go into effect in the next scheduled general election.

    Article 3: Executive Functions
    1. The executive branch is an association of officials that are democratically elected by majority vote by either parliamentary vote or direct vote by the people.

    2. The Executive Branch shall consist of the positions of a Chancellor, a President, and a Council of Ministers.

    3. The main duties of the Executive Branch are representing the Esamir Government at home and abroad and supporting the operations of the Legislature.

    4. To be elected to an Executive position, a potential candidate must have resided in the region for at least a week and have a verified forum account.


    Article 4: Executive Duties
    1. The Chancellor as the Head of the Government of Esamir has the primary duty of overseeing the daily operations of the Government. The primary role of that duty is to coordinate the functions of the Council of Ministers, especially the Ministers of Recruitment and Internal Affairs. At the beginning of the Chancellor’s term, he/she will appoint those said Ministers that will be approved by the Assembly. The Chancellor may also introduce legislation into Parliament to be voted on. The Chancellor is elected to a two month term consecutively renewable only once by members of the Esamir Assembly. The Chancellor may be removed from office by a vote of no-confidence by a two-thirds majority vote by the Assembly.  If the Chancellor has committed improper conduct he/she may be impeached by a two-thirds majority vote by a joint sitting of the Government.

    2. The President (or the WA delegate) has the primary obligation of representing Esamir abroad. As head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs which he/she appoints, the President has a large variety of duties dealing with matters of foreign nature. The most significant power as President is representing Esamir in the World Assembly. The President is elected by the people to a two month term consecutively renewable only once. If the President has committed improper conduct he/she may be impeached by a two-thirds majority vote by a joint sitting of the Government.

    3. The Minister of Internal Affairs, which chosen by the Chancellor, manages the details of the Esamir Government.  As Speaker of the House for both Chambers, the MoIA coordinates the legislative process and controls any debates that follow. If needed the MoIA may also make announcement to the region of important government decisions. To assist in his/her duties, the Minister can nominate member nations to be a part of the Ministry of Internal Affairs.

    4. To ensure the growth of the region, the Minister of Recruitment is tasked with convincing nations to join Esamir. As a NS++ Recruitment Officer, his/her main task is to manage the Nationstates++ Recruitment page and creating convincing recruitment telegrams. To assist in his/her duties, the Minister can nominate member nations to be a part of the Ministry of Recruitment.

    5. The Minister of Foreign Affairs, which is supervised by the President of Esamir, is tasked with representing Esamir abroad. The President may appoint member nations to assist with the Minsters duties. The Minister can request the opening or closure of embassies. The Ministry will be responsible for the creation and maintenance of embassies and alliances abroad.


    Article 5-The Judiciary

    1. The Judiciary is divided into a three part system. The parts are The Chief Justice, The Associate Justices, and The Jury.

    2. The Chief Justice is the leader of the Judiciary. The Chief Justice is electable or re-electable during the General Elections to a 6 month term. The CJ will announce the decision of the Jury as well as overseeing the General Elections.

    3. There are to be a minimum of four Associate Justices. The Associate Justices are electable or re-electable during the General Elections to a two month term. They will support the Chief Justice in civil cases by deciding the outcome. If the Chief of Justice is being elected a Associate Justice will oversee the General Elections.

    4. The Jury System is composed of a five-member jury selected in a randomized manner from the active members. To ensure the anonymity for the jury members, accounts labeled "Juror #_" will be assigned to the members who will then decide amongst themselves the verdict and punishment by a majority vote. If the defendant wishes to ask for a public listing of the jury votes, the justice leading the court would ask the jury accounts to list their true verdict.

    5. The Judiciary shall gain two Associate justice seats when the region contains a total of 300 nations. These two seats can be lost when the region contains less than 300 nations by the week of general elections.


    Article 6-Rights of All Nations in Esamir

    The Rights listed below are the Rights of the Nations in the Region of Esamir.

    1. The Right to vote for Regional President.

    2. The Right to vote in polls and have their vote respected.

    3. The Right to Amend the Constitution.

    4. The Freedom to do whatever they like to their nations, as long as internal security is not threatened.

    5. The Right to Free Speech.

    6. The Right to protest against their Government.

    7. The Right to post on the Regional Message Board.

    8. The Right to Choose whether to Participate in Regional Events.


    9. The Right to Petition the Government

    10. The Right to Leave the Region.


    Article 7-General Elections
    1. General Elections shall be held every two months at the last week of the final month in which the current government is in power. They shall be elected by a ballot, that must include options for all current Political Parties and Independent candidates as well as say what position the candidate is running for. Using alternative vote, Parliamentary candidates and the candidate or candidates running for President or Chancellor the with the large amount of votes shall be elected to position the candidate has run for.  


    Article 8-The Process of Amending the Constitution
    1. Amending the Constitution occurs through a Constitutional Convention, which shall be called with a two-thirds majority vote from both houses of Parliament. At the Convention nations submit and discuss amendments to the Constitution. After due acceptance of the Amendment by a two-thirds majority vote from a joint sitting of Parliament, it will be added to the Constitution.
    It has been edited
    Talanzaar what wording did we agree to?


    Last edited by Planita on Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:27 am; edited 13 times in total
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:37 pm

    Plantia wrote:1. The Chancellor as the Head of the Government of Esamir has the primary duty of overseeing the daily operations of the Government. The primary role of that duty is to coordinate the functions of the Council of Ministers, especially the Ministers of Recruitment and Internal Affairs. At the beginning of the Chancellor’s term, he/she will appoint those said Ministers that will be approved by Parliament. The Chancellor may also introduce legislation into Parliament to be voted on. The Chancellor is elected to a two month term before taking a leave of one month by members of the Esamir Assembly can hold office for two consecutive terms, but then is ineligible to serve again until sitting out one complete term. The Chancellor may be removed from office by a vote of no-confidence by a two-thirds majority vote by the Assembly.  If the Chancellor has committed improper conduct he/she may be impeached by a three-fourths majority vote by a joint sitting of the Government.

    2. The President (or the WA delegate) has the primary obligation of representing Esamir abroad. As head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs which he/she appoints, the President has a large variety of duties dealing with matters of foreign nature. The most significant power as President is representing Esamir in the World Assembly. The President is elected by the people to a two month term repeatable once consecutively only can hold office for two consecutive terms, but then is ineligible to serve again until sitting out one complete term. If the President has committed improper conduct he/she may be impeached by a three-fourths majority vote by a joint sitting of the Government.
    Changed the wording to what we agreed to
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    Kaevi
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi on Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:06 pm

    My changes are in yellow.

    ---

    Article 5-The Judiciary

    1. The Judiciary is divided into a three-part system. The parts are The Chief Justice, The Associate Justices, and The Jury.

    2. The Chief Justice is the leader of the Judiciary. The Chief Justice is electable or re-electable during the General Elections. They will announce the decision of the Jury.

    3. There are to be a minimum of four Associate Justices. The Associate Justices are electable or re-electable during the General Elections. They will support the Chief Justice.

    4. The Jury System is composed of a five-member jury selected in a randomized manner from the active members. To ensure the anonymity for the jury members, accounts labeled "Juror #_" will be assigned to the members who will then decide amongst themselves the verdict and punishment. If the defendant wishes to ask for a public listing of the jury votes, the justice leading the court would ask the jury accounts to list their true verdict.

    ---

    Point 1 I do not see the inclusion of a way to expand or contract the government based on the regional population. The government in its current size may prove to be far too small in the event a a population boom.

    Point 2 I would like to confirm that, by the wording of this document, that all court justices run for election every voting session. I personally do not care for the election of all justices at once. Perhaps one associate justice seat will run for election every general election, while the Chief Justice runs for reelection every three voting sessions.

    Point 3 We still do not see how elections will take place, who will proctor the elections, and who will ensure the proctor doesn't show bias (perhaps the Chief Justice?).

    Point 4 No mention of impeachment of any official has been mentioned. We need a way to remove a nation of unsound intentions from a high-level seat if necessary.


    Point 5 During elections where the Chief Justice is being elected, perhaps an acting Chief (possibly being the most senior associate justice) would keep the election proctor in check.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vernius on Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:38 am

    On a completely unrelated note, does the region plan on having an embassy policy or will it accept any and all requests?

    If the region does decide to be selective, what sort of criteria would be required for the Founder to agree to an embassy?
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:53 am

    I’m  gonna leave that for the Security Council to decide on our policy. Its probably gonna be a law not a constitutional matter
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi on Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:03 am

    My proposed additions that clarify how exactly the government changes size depending on population.

    ---

    Article 2: Legislative Functions

    6. For every 150 nations who join after the region reaches 150 member nations, the Esamir Assembly will gain two seats. The seat number will go down by two for every 150 nations who leave until the base is reached at seven seats. The maximum number of possible seats shall be fifteen.

    7. For every 150 nations who join after the region reaches 150 member nations, the Security Senate will gain two seats. The seat number will go down by two for every 150 nations who leave until the base is reached at five seats. The maximum number of possible seats shall be nine.

    8. A nation may not be a member of both houses at the same time and changes in seat number will go into effect in the next scheduled general election.

    ---

    Article 5-The Judiciary

    5. The Judiciary shall gain two Associate justice seats when the region contains a total of 300 nations. These two seats can be lost when the region contains less than 300 nations by the week of general elections.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:30 am

    Done
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    North Macwick

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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by North Macwick on Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:32 am

    Article 1
    Section 2
    It still doesn’t give a name for the people who are chosen to have access to the Shared Founder. I have suggested “Shared Founder Controller” as we shouldn’t really use Shared Founder for the nation and the people who control it. It still doesn’t state these people (Shared Founder Controller) serve until they resign or are removed. If they can be removed by the judicial branch it should say so here and in article 5 see below.

    There is still nothing about the forum Admins. Do all Shared Founder Controllers” have full admin rights on the forum? Is so it should be stated. If not how are Admins appointed and held to account?

    Article II
    I think members of each chamber should have separate names – “Senators” and “Assembly Members”. I think it is not a good thing to give each house separate responsibility for different types of legislation.

    What happened to the system of PR that was suggested earlier?

    I think there should be consistency in clauses and so suggest having “the Senators/Assembly Members are elected for a term of two months and are eligible for re-election”. Also instead of stating a number I think as it changes it would be better to say – “The minimum number of Senators/Assembly Members is 5/7” (separately in the relevant clauses).

    Which house passes legislation on issues not stated in the constitution that might need further legislation?

    We don’t define what an “official” is. As written the judiciary will have to define it. I suggest not using that term at all. I would prefer that Senators are impeached in the Senate and Assembly Members be impeached in the Assembly.

    If members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers are all to be impeached in the same matter it should be stated so, using the term – “members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers”.

    Clause 8 implies that if I have two nations in the region I can be in both houses. Is this the intention? If not it needs to be changed (“Main” or citizen if we have citizenship).

    Why is Article 3 called Executive Function and then talks of the Executive Branch? I would like the title changed to Executive Branch.

    Article 4
    Isn’t it the Assembly that approves ministers not the Parliament? -  I think a change required here.

    If someone wanted to remove the Chancellor wouldn’t they always go for no confidence?

    Is a three-quarters needed for the Chancellor and President only and a simple majority for other impeachments?

    Has anyone thought about the problem of everyone voting for the President and then making sure that the nations in the NS World Assembly actually make this happen? Wouldn’t it better if voting was done just those nations who are in the NS World Assembly?

    Clause 4 Can a Recruitment Officer manage recruitment in NS++ if they are not the WA Delegate or Founder? Should it be specified that the Minister of Recruitment is a NS++ Recruitment Officer?

    Clause 5 The Minister of Foreign Affairs doesn’t have the power to request, accept or close embassies in NS. Some forums have embassies. Do you mean these types of embassies? If so what about approving embassies on this forum?

    Article 5
    As the Chief Justice is elected for terms of 6 months there is a conflict in having “The CJ is electable … during the General Election ..” as General Elections are every 2 months. I suggest “The Chief Justice is elected for a term of 6 months and is eligible for re-election”

    Clause 3 as we haven’t used General Election in earlier Article I suggest we don’t use it here either - The Associate Justices are elected for a term of 2 months and are eligible for re-election”. (Note we have the used “minimum” here – I have suggested its use higher up).

    What is a civil case? (Not defined , but the constitution does let anyone define these!) When someone breaks the constitution isn’t that a crime. Who deals with criminal cases? I suggest removing the word “civil”.

    Somewhere we need that the Judiciary to have the role of ruling on the interpretation of the constitution and laws.

    Are all cases decided by a simple majority of the Jury? If so we should state it.

    I would like this added – “Members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers if found guilty in a court case may be removed from office by the Judiciary as part of the sentence for a specified time.”

    Article 7
    I think you need to state ATV and STV. Alternative only works for single seat elections. Using it for Parliament will mean we will have to have 12 separate elections. What method of ballot is being used? I like non secret – post your vote on the forum. If thinking about using a poll on the forum can it deal with Alternative votes? (I would be surprised if it can.) I don’t like voting for parties. I think we should be voting for individuals as this gives more power to the voters and less to the political parties.

    Article 8
    I don’t like the high level of agreement needed just to discuss amending the constitution. I would prefer 3 members of Parliament including one from each house. I also would prefer a two-third majority not three-quarters.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:26 am

    You raise some very good points. I suppose we should add those edits in.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi on Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:47 am

    North Macwick wrote:Article 1
    Section 2
    It still doesn’t give a name for the people who are chosen to have access to the Shared Founder. I have suggested “Shared Founder Controller” as we shouldn’t really use Shared Founder for the nation and the people who control it. It still doesn’t state these people (Shared Founder Controller) serve until they resign or are removed. If they can be removed by the judicial branch it should say so here and in article 5 see below.

    There is a reason the nations are not mentioned specifically. We would need to amend the constitution in the event that one leaves. "Controller" sounds well, controlling. A Founder with "control" conflicts with the ideals to which t his region was founded.

    North Macwick wrote:There is still nothing about the forum Admins. Do all Shared Founder Controllers” have full admin rights on the forum? Is so it should be stated. If not how are Admins appointed and held to account?

    While I agree this should be stated, it can be seen as a given as the Admins just so happen to be Designer nations. It is (or was supposed to have been) stated somewhere that Admins are appointed in private the the remaining Designers.

    North Macwick wrote:Article II
    I think members of each chamber should have separate names – “Senators” and “Assembly Members”. I think it is not a good thing to give each house separate responsibility for different types of legislation.

    I like the different name idea. At times they can collaborate for the same goal, mainly in impeachments and emergency Designer appointments.

    North Macwick wrote:What happened to the system of PR that was suggested earlier?

    No idea what you're talking about.

    North Macwick wrote:I think there should be consistency in clauses and so suggest having “the Senators/Assembly Members are elected for a term of two months and are eligible for re-election”. Also instead of stating a number I think as it changes it would be better to say – “The minimum number of Senators/Assembly Members is 5/7” (separately in the relevant clauses).

    I think this was added while you were making this post. The minimum number of Parliament members should have been added from what I proposed.

    North Macwick wrote:Which house passes legislation on issues not stated in the constitution that might need further legislation?

    While the constitution does give suggestions as to which house does what, I think we should leave it open for non-constitutional legislation. Perhaps the constitution should say what each house cannot do, keeping the government from becoming too rigid.

    North Macwick wrote:We don’t define what an “official” is. As written the judiciary will have to define it. I suggest not using that term at all. I would prefer that Senators are impeached in the Senate and Assembly Members be impeached in the Assembly.

    Muy bueno.

    North Macwick wrote:If members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers are all to be impeached in the same matter it should be stated so, using the term – “members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers”.

    Clause 8 implies that if I have two nations in the region I can be in both houses. Is this the intention? If not it needs to be changed (“Main” or citizen if we have citizenship).

    Great that you brought up the issue with having two nations. That could've ended up being messy if it wasn't caught. I think only the "main" nation is supposed to be in any seat of government.

    North Macwick wrote:Why is Article 3 called Executive Function and then talks of the Executive Branch? I would like the title changed to Executive Branch.

    Article 4
    Isn’t it the Assembly that approves ministers not the Parliament? -  I think a change required here.

    If someone wanted to remove the Chancellor wouldn’t they always go for no confidence?

    Is a three-quarters needed for the Chancellor and President only and a simple majority for other impeachments?

    Has anyone thought about the problem of everyone voting for the President and then making sure that the nations in the NS World Assembly actually make this happen? Wouldn’t it better if voting was done just those nations who are in the NS World Assembly?

    Clause 4 Can a Recruitment Officer manage recruitment in NS++ if they are not the WA Delegate or Founder? Should it be specified that the Minister of Recruitment is a NS++ Recruitment Officer?

    Clause 5 The Minister of Foreign Affairs doesn’t have the power to request, accept or close embassies in NS. Some forums have embassies. Do you mean these types of embassies? If so what about approving embassies on this forum?

    Article 5
    As the Chief Justice is elected for terms of 6 months there is a conflict in having “The CJ is electable … during the General Election ..” as General Elections are every 2 months. I suggest “The Chief Justice is elected for a term of 6 months and is eligible for re-election”

    Clause 3 as we haven’t used General Election in earlier Article I suggest we don’t use it here either - The Associate Justices are elected for a term of 2 months and are eligible for re-election”. (Note we have the used “minimum” here – I have suggested its use higher up).

    I like this.

    North Macwick wrote:What is a civil case? (Not defined , but the constitution does let anyone define these!) When someone breaks the constitution isn’t that a crime. Who deals with criminal cases? I suggest removing the word “civil”.

    The jury is supposed to deal with criminal cases. I suggest what is "criminal" to be left open for legislation aside from a basic listing of what the jury cannot impose upon a nation, similar to Amendment Eight of the U.S. Constitution.

    North Macwick wrote:Somewhere we need that the Judiciary to have the role of ruling on the interpretation of the constitution and laws.

    Are all cases decided by a simple majority of the Jury? If so we should state it.

    I would like this added – “Members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers if found guilty in a court case may be removed from office by the Judiciary as part of the sentence for a specified time.”

    I think simple majority is what is intended, but I agree that it should be stated. I agree with the rest.

    North Macwick wrote:Article 7
    I think you need to state ATV and STV. Alternative only works for single seat elections. Using it for Parliament will mean we will have to have 12 separate elections. What method of ballot is being used? I like non secret – post your vote on the forum. If thinking about using a poll on the forum can it deal with Alternative votes? (I would be surprised if it can.) I don’t like voting for parties. I think we should be voting for individuals as this gives more power to the voters and less to the political parties.

    Article 8
    I don’t like the high level of agreement needed just to discuss amending the constitution. I would prefer 3 members of Parliament including one from each house. I also would prefer a two-third majority not three-quarters.

    I like this.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:59 pm

    Are these changes going to be added by any of the 5 admins or . . .
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:07 pm

    Done! But I think we should keep the Political parties, and have everyone in the impeachment trials though.
    ITEMS FOR CONSIDERATION
    1. Impeachment Procedures
    2. Political Parties?
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:32 pm

    Planita wrote:Done! But I think we should keep the Political parties, and have everyone in the impeachment trials though.
    ITEMS FOR CONSIDERATION
    1. Impeachment Procedures
    2. Political Parties?
    As one of the co-founder you make the final call so you can go ahead and put what you think is right.

    For impeachment, if someone breaks one of the rules in the constitution, then maybe we can set up a separate thread where members of the lower house and the upper house vote on the matter. Members can also vote on punishments (removal from office).

    And what do we need for political parties?
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:36 am

    We already have political parties
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi on Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:26 am

    I am still for voting for individual nations instead of political parties, like how in real life people vote for individual representatives instead of simply tallying votes for a party.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:17 am

    If you want to run without party, you can. Dromoda and Ivania have always run as independents.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by North Macwick on Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:50 am

    I am going to respond to most of the comments of Kaevi first and then comment on the latest draft.

    I think you have misunderstood. In an earlier post of mine I supported the idea that the nations are not named in the constitution. I can understand your strong feeling against the work “controller” and so suggest “Shared Founder Operators” or “Shared Founder Users” of Share Founder Password Holders”. What the name is, is not the important thing, but having a name for them is, so their powers can be removed and they can be held to account, which I thought was the problem you were addressing. I noticed on the forum someone used the term “god group” which I think is even worse than SFC.

    It is a very bad thing for anything to be “a given”. When there is a constitution if it isn’t in it, then it can’t be enforced.

    I’ll post separately about PR and elections issues.

    If you change “civil” to “criminal” you may still have problems in the future, just not having either is the inclusive thing and I suggest that. (I note no change made!)

    I have re-considered what I said and I don’t think a jury should be involved in the interpretation of the constitution and laws and so suggest “the justices” instead of “the Judiciary.

    Article 2
    It doesn’t say that Senators are elected. It doesn’t say the assembly members are elected – I did suggest - “the Senators/Assembly Members are elected for a term of two months and are eligible for re-election” and I don’t understand why you didn’t use it.

    There is a conflict in the constitution because the size of the chamber both changes and is cast in stone. This is why I suggested the use of “minimum” and suggested “The minimum number of Senators/Assembly Members is 5/7” as you have with Justices in Article 5.

    The issue of what an “official” is hasn’t been addressed. My suggested wording would have done so - “members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers”. (Maybe I wasn't clear.)

    OK so you didn’t agree by tidying up suggestion for Article 3. It just would have made it more consistent. But hay ho!

    Article 4
    Chancellor
    Maybe I missed this last time but I would prefer – “The Chancellor is elected to a two month term by members of the Esamir Assembly and is consecutively re-electable only once.” Also I think it would be better to come two sentences earlier!

    Article 5
    The CJ is clearly not elected during every General Election! I still think that there should be no reference to a General Election in Article 5 as there was no reference to one in Article 2. Hence my suggestions - “The Chief Justice is elected for a term of 6 months and is eligible for re-election” and “The Associate Justices are elected for a term of 2 months and are eligible for re-election”. (Note we have the used “minimum” here – I have suggested its use higher up).

    I thought you had agreed to include something about the interpretation of the constitution and laws – see my suggested new change above.

    I still think you should clearly state this “Members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers if found guilty in a court case may be removed from office by the Judiciary as part of the sentence for a specified time.” It might save you arguments and disagreements in the future.

    Article 7 – I will post my comments in about 3 hours.

    Article 8
    I thought you had agreed to make calling a convention much easier I suggest – “which shall be called with the agreement of three members of Parliament, which shall include at least one member from each house”.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:59 am

    Chancellor and President can be elected and re-elected. They have to sit out 1 term if they want to run for a third term. Then they can be elected and re-elected again, so on and so forth.

    Listen, we are spending way to much time on this. We've got the major ideas down and we don't need to fuss over what words we should and shouldn't use. Its good if we have the major ideas down, details can be sorted out after we establish a government.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:15 am

    Talanzaar wrote:Chancellor and President can be elected and re-elected. They  have to sit out 1 term if they want to run for a third term. Then they can be elected and re-elected again, so on and so forth.

    Listen, we are spending way to much time on this. We've got the major ideas down and we don't need to fuss over what words we should and shouldn't use. Its good if we have the major ideas down, details can be sorted out after we establish a government.
    I agree, we can always amendment it. Plus the USA had more than constitution remember?

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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

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