Esamir

Would you like to react to this message? Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue.

Official Forum for Esamir, a Nationstates Region.


+10
Federation of Antanares
Arveyres
Duresia
Kaevi
The New England Union
New Tarajan
Eurasia
Vajorr
Reisal
Unovia Esamir
14 posters

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    New Tarajan
    New Tarajan
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 610
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 32
    Location : Rome

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by New Tarajan Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:26 am

    I agree with Kaevi. Unfortunately, we need to count on our actual numbers, but we could easily provide our Constitution with the possibility to further expand in the future our judicial body.

    Reisal
    Reisal
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2014-08-04
    Location : Canada

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:32 am

    Kaevi wrote:
    Talanzaar wrote:
    Exactly. Our current numbers  needs to be cut down.

    Lets get the essentials down first:

    We need the Chancellor and the  President --- 2

    We also need a chief Justice --- 3

    Then we need asscociate justices (I think there should be 3) --- 7

    Lower house needs to be cut down, maybe 7 seats --- 14

    Upper house should have 5 seats --- 19

    19 nations is a fair size for a region like us

    Three associate justices, plus the chief would give an even amount in the judiciary. This could make verdicts difficult when the court is evenly divided. I say 4 associates with a chief.

    Although your numbers are the most realistic of what we're able to get as of now, we may want to include a clause that adds a certain amount of seats to the upper and lower houses for every 200 nations who join the region. After 500 or so nations reside in the region, the judiciary would add two associate seats. Whether or not we will ever reach this amount is uncertain, but at least we would have a plan in place.
    Oh, sorry, didn't realize that, your right. And of course, as the region grows, so should the size of government.
    Reisal
    Reisal
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2014-08-04
    Location : Canada

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:37 am

    So, changes to be noted.

    - Elections are held every 2 or 3 months, admins can choose either
    - Number of electable offices cut down to 19 (1 Chancellor, 1 President, 1 Chief Justice, 4 Associate Justices, 7 Lower House Members, 5 Upper House Members)
    - Members of Lower House, Upper House and Chief/Associate Justices can run for a term as much times as they want
    -Chancellor/President can run for 2 consecutive terms, but must sit out 1 term in order to run again
    -The Government size will grow/shrink with population
    I've read through the constitution again and have no problem with whats there. Hopefully it will be completed because we seriously need to be done with this already.


    Last edited by Talanzaar on Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:44 am; edited 2 times in total
    Kaevi
    Kaevi
    Ascendancy
    Ascendancy


    Posts : 335
    Join date : 2014-08-04

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:40 am

    Talanzaar wrote:So, changes to be noted.

    - Elections are held every 2 or 3 months, admins can choose either
    - Number of electable offices cut down to 20 (1 Chancellor, 1 President, 1 Chief Justice, 3 Associate Justices, 7 Lower House Members, 5 Upper House Members)
    - Members of Lower House, Upper House and Chief/Associate Justices can run for a term as much times as they want
    -Chancellor/President can run for 2 consecutive terms, but must sit out 1 term in order to run again

    I've read through the constitution again and have no problem with whats there. Hopefully it will be completed because we seriously need to be done with this already.

    *4 associate justices at start
    *gov't grows with region population

    Yeah, we need to wrap this up.
    Reisal
    Reisal
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2014-08-04
    Location : Canada

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal Sun Aug 17, 2014 10:42 am

    Kaevi wrote:
    Talanzaar wrote:So, changes to be noted.

    - Elections are held every 2 or 3 months, admins can choose either
    - Number of electable offices cut down to 20 (1 Chancellor, 1 President, 1 Chief Justice, 3 Associate Justices, 7 Lower House Members, 5 Upper House Members)
    - Members of Lower House, Upper House and Chief/Associate Justices can run for a term as much times as they want
    -Chancellor/President can run for 2 consecutive terms, but must sit out 1 term in order to run again

    I've read through the constitution again and have no problem with whats there. Hopefully it will be completed because we seriously need to be done with this already.

    *4 associate justices at start
    *gov't grows with region population

    Yeah, we need to wrap this up.
    Oops, I'll edit it
    Australian Eltebena
    Australian Eltebena
    Ascendancy
    Ascendancy


    Posts : 69
    Join date : 2014-08-10
    Age : 27
    Location : Australia

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Australian Eltebena Sun Aug 17, 2014 11:08 am

    This all sounds good to me. Let's get this happening!
    Vajorr
    Vajorr
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2014-08-06
    Age : 24
    Location : Los Angeles, California, United States of America

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:28 pm

    Ok I have made the changes. If anyone have problems with it say it now
    Constitution:
    It has been edited
    Talanzaar what wording did we agree to?


    Last edited by Planita on Wed Aug 20, 2014 9:27 am; edited 13 times in total
    Reisal
    Reisal
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2014-08-04
    Location : Canada

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal Sun Aug 17, 2014 12:37 pm

    Plantia wrote:1. The Chancellor as the Head of the Government of Esamir has the primary duty of overseeing the daily operations of the Government. The primary role of that duty is to coordinate the functions of the Council of Ministers, especially the Ministers of Recruitment and Internal Affairs. At the beginning of the Chancellor’s term, he/she will appoint those said Ministers that will be approved by Parliament. The Chancellor may also introduce legislation into Parliament to be voted on. The Chancellor is elected to a two month term before taking a leave of one month by members of the Esamir Assembly can hold office for two consecutive terms, but then is ineligible to serve again until sitting out one complete term. The Chancellor may be removed from office by a vote of no-confidence by a two-thirds majority vote by the Assembly.  If the Chancellor has committed improper conduct he/she may be impeached by a three-fourths majority vote by a joint sitting of the Government.

    2. The President (or the WA delegate) has the primary obligation of representing Esamir abroad. As head of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs which he/she appoints, the President has a large variety of duties dealing with matters of foreign nature. The most significant power as President is representing Esamir in the World Assembly. The President is elected by the people to a two month term repeatable once consecutively only can hold office for two consecutive terms, but then is ineligible to serve again until sitting out one complete term. If the President has committed improper conduct he/she may be impeached by a three-fourths majority vote by a joint sitting of the Government.
    Changed the wording to what we agreed to
    Kaevi
    Kaevi
    Ascendancy
    Ascendancy


    Posts : 335
    Join date : 2014-08-04

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi Sun Aug 17, 2014 1:06 pm

    My changes are in yellow.

    ---

    Article 5-The Judiciary

    1. The Judiciary is divided into a three-part system. The parts are The Chief Justice, The Associate Justices, and The Jury.

    2. The Chief Justice is the leader of the Judiciary. The Chief Justice is electable or re-electable during the General Elections. They will announce the decision of the Jury.

    3. There are to be a minimum of four Associate Justices. The Associate Justices are electable or re-electable during the General Elections. They will support the Chief Justice.

    4. The Jury System is composed of a five-member jury selected in a randomized manner from the active members. To ensure the anonymity for the jury members, accounts labeled "Juror #_" will be assigned to the members who will then decide amongst themselves the verdict and punishment. If the defendant wishes to ask for a public listing of the jury votes, the justice leading the court would ask the jury accounts to list their true verdict.

    ---

    Point 1 I do not see the inclusion of a way to expand or contract the government based on the regional population. The government in its current size may prove to be far too small in the event a a population boom.

    Point 2 I would like to confirm that, by the wording of this document, that all court justices run for election every voting session. I personally do not care for the election of all justices at once. Perhaps one associate justice seat will run for election every general election, while the Chief Justice runs for reelection every three voting sessions.

    Point 3 We still do not see how elections will take place, who will proctor the elections, and who will ensure the proctor doesn't show bias (perhaps the Chief Justice?).

    Point 4 No mention of impeachment of any official has been mentioned. We need a way to remove a nation of unsound intentions from a high-level seat if necessary.


    Point 5 During elections where the Chief Justice is being elected, perhaps an acting Chief (possibly being the most senior associate justice) would keep the election proctor in check.
    Vernius
    Vernius


    Posts : 8
    Join date : 2014-08-14
    Location : Massachusetts

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vernius Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:38 am

    On a completely unrelated note, does the region plan on having an embassy policy or will it accept any and all requests?

    If the region does decide to be selective, what sort of criteria would be required for the Founder to agree to an embassy?
    Vajorr
    Vajorr
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2014-08-06
    Age : 24
    Location : Los Angeles, California, United States of America

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:53 am

    I’m  gonna leave that for the Security Council to decide on our policy. Its probably gonna be a law not a constitutional matter
    Kaevi
    Kaevi
    Ascendancy
    Ascendancy


    Posts : 335
    Join date : 2014-08-04

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi Mon Aug 18, 2014 4:03 am

    My proposed additions that clarify how exactly the government changes size depending on population.

    ---

    Article 2: Legislative Functions

    6. For every 150 nations who join after the region reaches 150 member nations, the Esamir Assembly will gain two seats. The seat number will go down by two for every 150 nations who leave until the base is reached at seven seats. The maximum number of possible seats shall be fifteen.

    7. For every 150 nations who join after the region reaches 150 member nations, the Security Senate will gain two seats. The seat number will go down by two for every 150 nations who leave until the base is reached at five seats. The maximum number of possible seats shall be nine.

    8. A nation may not be a member of both houses at the same time and changes in seat number will go into effect in the next scheduled general election.

    ---

    Article 5-The Judiciary

    5. The Judiciary shall gain two Associate justice seats when the region contains a total of 300 nations. These two seats can be lost when the region contains less than 300 nations by the week of general elections.
    Vajorr
    Vajorr
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2014-08-06
    Age : 24
    Location : Los Angeles, California, United States of America

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:30 am

    Done
    North Macwick
    North Macwick


    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2014-08-14

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by North Macwick Mon Aug 18, 2014 10:32 am

    Article 1
    Section 2
    It still doesn’t give a name for the people who are chosen to have access to the Shared Founder. I have suggested “Shared Founder Controller” as we shouldn’t really use Shared Founder for the nation and the people who control it. It still doesn’t state these people (Shared Founder Controller) serve until they resign or are removed. If they can be removed by the judicial branch it should say so here and in article 5 see below.

    There is still nothing about the forum Admins. Do all Shared Founder Controllers” have full admin rights on the forum? Is so it should be stated. If not how are Admins appointed and held to account?

    Article II
    I think members of each chamber should have separate names – “Senators” and “Assembly Members”. I think it is not a good thing to give each house separate responsibility for different types of legislation.

    What happened to the system of PR that was suggested earlier?

    I think there should be consistency in clauses and so suggest having “the Senators/Assembly Members are elected for a term of two months and are eligible for re-election”. Also instead of stating a number I think as it changes it would be better to say – “The minimum number of Senators/Assembly Members is 5/7” (separately in the relevant clauses).

    Which house passes legislation on issues not stated in the constitution that might need further legislation?

    We don’t define what an “official” is. As written the judiciary will have to define it. I suggest not using that term at all. I would prefer that Senators are impeached in the Senate and Assembly Members be impeached in the Assembly.

    If members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers are all to be impeached in the same matter it should be stated so, using the term – “members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers”.

    Clause 8 implies that if I have two nations in the region I can be in both houses. Is this the intention? If not it needs to be changed (“Main” or citizen if we have citizenship).

    Why is Article 3 called Executive Function and then talks of the Executive Branch? I would like the title changed to Executive Branch.

    Article 4
    Isn’t it the Assembly that approves ministers not the Parliament? -  I think a change required here.

    If someone wanted to remove the Chancellor wouldn’t they always go for no confidence?

    Is a three-quarters needed for the Chancellor and President only and a simple majority for other impeachments?

    Has anyone thought about the problem of everyone voting for the President and then making sure that the nations in the NS World Assembly actually make this happen? Wouldn’t it better if voting was done just those nations who are in the NS World Assembly?

    Clause 4 Can a Recruitment Officer manage recruitment in NS++ if they are not the WA Delegate or Founder? Should it be specified that the Minister of Recruitment is a NS++ Recruitment Officer?

    Clause 5 The Minister of Foreign Affairs doesn’t have the power to request, accept or close embassies in NS. Some forums have embassies. Do you mean these types of embassies? If so what about approving embassies on this forum?

    Article 5
    As the Chief Justice is elected for terms of 6 months there is a conflict in having “The CJ is electable … during the General Election ..” as General Elections are every 2 months. I suggest “The Chief Justice is elected for a term of 6 months and is eligible for re-election”

    Clause 3 as we haven’t used General Election in earlier Article I suggest we don’t use it here either - The Associate Justices are elected for a term of 2 months and are eligible for re-election”. (Note we have the used “minimum” here – I have suggested its use higher up).

    What is a civil case? (Not defined , but the constitution does let anyone define these!) When someone breaks the constitution isn’t that a crime. Who deals with criminal cases? I suggest removing the word “civil”.

    Somewhere we need that the Judiciary to have the role of ruling on the interpretation of the constitution and laws.

    Are all cases decided by a simple majority of the Jury? If so we should state it.

    I would like this added – “Members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers if found guilty in a court case may be removed from office by the Judiciary as part of the sentence for a specified time.”

    Article 7
    I think you need to state ATV and STV. Alternative only works for single seat elections. Using it for Parliament will mean we will have to have 12 separate elections. What method of ballot is being used? I like non secret – post your vote on the forum. If thinking about using a poll on the forum can it deal with Alternative votes? (I would be surprised if it can.) I don’t like voting for parties. I think we should be voting for individuals as this gives more power to the voters and less to the political parties.

    Article 8
    I don’t like the high level of agreement needed just to discuss amending the constitution. I would prefer 3 members of Parliament including one from each house. I also would prefer a two-third majority not three-quarters.
    Reisal
    Reisal
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2014-08-04
    Location : Canada

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:26 am

    You raise some very good points. I suppose we should add those edits in.
    Kaevi
    Kaevi
    Ascendancy
    Ascendancy


    Posts : 335
    Join date : 2014-08-04

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi Mon Aug 18, 2014 11:47 am

    North Macwick wrote:Article 1
    Section 2
    It still doesn’t give a name for the people who are chosen to have access to the Shared Founder. I have suggested “Shared Founder Controller” as we shouldn’t really use Shared Founder for the nation and the people who control it. It still doesn’t state these people (Shared Founder Controller) serve until they resign or are removed. If they can be removed by the judicial branch it should say so here and in article 5 see below.

    There is a reason the nations are not mentioned specifically. We would need to amend the constitution in the event that one leaves. "Controller" sounds well, controlling. A Founder with "control" conflicts with the ideals to which t his region was founded.

    North Macwick wrote:There is still nothing about the forum Admins. Do all Shared Founder Controllers” have full admin rights on the forum? Is so it should be stated. If not how are Admins appointed and held to account?

    While I agree this should be stated, it can be seen as a given as the Admins just so happen to be Designer nations. It is (or was supposed to have been) stated somewhere that Admins are appointed in private the the remaining Designers.

    North Macwick wrote:Article II
    I think members of each chamber should have separate names – “Senators” and “Assembly Members”. I think it is not a good thing to give each house separate responsibility for different types of legislation.

    I like the different name idea. At times they can collaborate for the same goal, mainly in impeachments and emergency Designer appointments.

    North Macwick wrote:What happened to the system of PR that was suggested earlier?

    No idea what you're talking about.

    North Macwick wrote:I think there should be consistency in clauses and so suggest having “the Senators/Assembly Members are elected for a term of two months and are eligible for re-election”. Also instead of stating a number I think as it changes it would be better to say – “The minimum number of Senators/Assembly Members is 5/7” (separately in the relevant clauses).

    I think this was added while you were making this post. The minimum number of Parliament members should have been added from what I proposed.

    North Macwick wrote:Which house passes legislation on issues not stated in the constitution that might need further legislation?

    While the constitution does give suggestions as to which house does what, I think we should leave it open for non-constitutional legislation. Perhaps the constitution should say what each house cannot do, keeping the government from becoming too rigid.

    North Macwick wrote:We don’t define what an “official” is. As written the judiciary will have to define it. I suggest not using that term at all. I would prefer that Senators are impeached in the Senate and Assembly Members be impeached in the Assembly.

    Muy bueno.

    North Macwick wrote:If members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers are all to be impeached in the same matter it should be stated so, using the term – “members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers”.

    Clause 8 implies that if I have two nations in the region I can be in both houses. Is this the intention? If not it needs to be changed (“Main” or citizen if we have citizenship).

    Great that you brought up the issue with having two nations. That could've ended up being messy if it wasn't caught. I think only the "main" nation is supposed to be in any seat of government.

    North Macwick wrote:Why is Article 3 called Executive Function and then talks of the Executive Branch? I would like the title changed to Executive Branch.

    Article 4
    Isn’t it the Assembly that approves ministers not the Parliament? -  I think a change required here.

    If someone wanted to remove the Chancellor wouldn’t they always go for no confidence?

    Is a three-quarters needed for the Chancellor and President only and a simple majority for other impeachments?

    Has anyone thought about the problem of everyone voting for the President and then making sure that the nations in the NS World Assembly actually make this happen? Wouldn’t it better if voting was done just those nations who are in the NS World Assembly?

    Clause 4 Can a Recruitment Officer manage recruitment in NS++ if they are not the WA Delegate or Founder? Should it be specified that the Minister of Recruitment is a NS++ Recruitment Officer?

    Clause 5 The Minister of Foreign Affairs doesn’t have the power to request, accept or close embassies in NS. Some forums have embassies. Do you mean these types of embassies? If so what about approving embassies on this forum?

    Article 5
    As the Chief Justice is elected for terms of 6 months there is a conflict in having “The CJ is electable … during the General Election ..” as General Elections are every 2 months. I suggest “The Chief Justice is elected for a term of 6 months and is eligible for re-election”

    Clause 3 as we haven’t used General Election in earlier Article I suggest we don’t use it here either - The Associate Justices are elected for a term of 2 months and are eligible for re-election”. (Note we have the used “minimum” here – I have suggested its use higher up).

    I like this.

    North Macwick wrote:What is a civil case? (Not defined , but the constitution does let anyone define these!) When someone breaks the constitution isn’t that a crime. Who deals with criminal cases? I suggest removing the word “civil”.

    The jury is supposed to deal with criminal cases. I suggest what is "criminal" to be left open for legislation aside from a basic listing of what the jury cannot impose upon a nation, similar to Amendment Eight of the U.S. Constitution.

    North Macwick wrote:Somewhere we need that the Judiciary to have the role of ruling on the interpretation of the constitution and laws.

    Are all cases decided by a simple majority of the Jury? If so we should state it.

    I would like this added – “Members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers if found guilty in a court case may be removed from office by the Judiciary as part of the sentence for a specified time.”

    I think simple majority is what is intended, but I agree that it should be stated. I agree with the rest.

    North Macwick wrote:Article 7
    I think you need to state ATV and STV. Alternative only works for single seat elections. Using it for Parliament will mean we will have to have 12 separate elections. What method of ballot is being used? I like non secret – post your vote on the forum. If thinking about using a poll on the forum can it deal with Alternative votes? (I would be surprised if it can.) I don’t like voting for parties. I think we should be voting for individuals as this gives more power to the voters and less to the political parties.

    Article 8
    I don’t like the high level of agreement needed just to discuss amending the constitution. I would prefer 3 members of Parliament including one from each house. I also would prefer a two-third majority not three-quarters.

    I like this.
    Reisal
    Reisal
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2014-08-04
    Location : Canada

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal Mon Aug 18, 2014 2:59 pm

    Are these changes going to be added by any of the 5 admins or . . .
    Vajorr
    Vajorr
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2014-08-06
    Age : 24
    Location : Los Angeles, California, United States of America

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:07 pm

    Done! But I think we should keep the Political parties, and have everyone in the impeachment trials though.
    ITEMS FOR CONSIDERATION
    1. Impeachment Procedures
    2. Political Parties?
    Reisal
    Reisal
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2014-08-04
    Location : Canada

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal Mon Aug 18, 2014 3:32 pm

    Planita wrote:Done! But I think we should keep the Political parties, and have everyone in the impeachment trials though.
    ITEMS FOR CONSIDERATION
    1. Impeachment Procedures
    2. Political Parties?
    As one of the co-founder you make the final call so you can go ahead and put what you think is right.

    For impeachment, if someone breaks one of the rules in the constitution, then maybe we can set up a separate thread where members of the lower house and the upper house vote on the matter. Members can also vote on punishments (removal from office).

    And what do we need for political parties?
    Vajorr
    Vajorr
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2014-08-06
    Age : 24
    Location : Los Angeles, California, United States of America

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr Tue Aug 19, 2014 1:36 am

    We already have political parties
    Kaevi
    Kaevi
    Ascendancy
    Ascendancy


    Posts : 335
    Join date : 2014-08-04

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi Tue Aug 19, 2014 4:26 am

    I am still for voting for individual nations instead of political parties, like how in real life people vote for individual representatives instead of simply tallying votes for a party.
    Eurasia
    Eurasia
    Supremacy
    Supremacy


    Posts : 1030
    Join date : 2014-08-03
    Age : 48
    Location : Ann Arbor, Michigan

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia Tue Aug 19, 2014 5:17 am

    If you want to run without party, you can. Dromoda and Ivania have always run as independents.
    North Macwick
    North Macwick


    Posts : 23
    Join date : 2014-08-14

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by North Macwick Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:50 am

    I am going to respond to most of the comments of Kaevi first and then comment on the latest draft.

    I think you have misunderstood. In an earlier post of mine I supported the idea that the nations are not named in the constitution. I can understand your strong feeling against the work “controller” and so suggest “Shared Founder Operators” or “Shared Founder Users” of Share Founder Password Holders”. What the name is, is not the important thing, but having a name for them is, so their powers can be removed and they can be held to account, which I thought was the problem you were addressing. I noticed on the forum someone used the term “god group” which I think is even worse than SFC.

    It is a very bad thing for anything to be “a given”. When there is a constitution if it isn’t in it, then it can’t be enforced.

    I’ll post separately about PR and elections issues.

    If you change “civil” to “criminal” you may still have problems in the future, just not having either is the inclusive thing and I suggest that. (I note no change made!)

    I have re-considered what I said and I don’t think a jury should be involved in the interpretation of the constitution and laws and so suggest “the justices” instead of “the Judiciary.

    Article 2
    It doesn’t say that Senators are elected. It doesn’t say the assembly members are elected – I did suggest - “the Senators/Assembly Members are elected for a term of two months and are eligible for re-election” and I don’t understand why you didn’t use it.

    There is a conflict in the constitution because the size of the chamber both changes and is cast in stone. This is why I suggested the use of “minimum” and suggested “The minimum number of Senators/Assembly Members is 5/7” as you have with Justices in Article 5.

    The issue of what an “official” is hasn’t been addressed. My suggested wording would have done so - “members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers”. (Maybe I wasn't clear.)

    OK so you didn’t agree by tidying up suggestion for Article 3. It just would have made it more consistent. But hay ho!

    Article 4
    Chancellor
    Maybe I missed this last time but I would prefer – “The Chancellor is elected to a two month term by members of the Esamir Assembly and is consecutively re-electable only once.” Also I think it would be better to come two sentences earlier!

    Article 5
    The CJ is clearly not elected during every General Election! I still think that there should be no reference to a General Election in Article 5 as there was no reference to one in Article 2. Hence my suggestions - “The Chief Justice is elected for a term of 6 months and is eligible for re-election” and “The Associate Justices are elected for a term of 2 months and are eligible for re-election”. (Note we have the used “minimum” here – I have suggested its use higher up).

    I thought you had agreed to include something about the interpretation of the constitution and laws – see my suggested new change above.

    I still think you should clearly state this “Members of the legislature, executive, judiciary and the Shared Founder Controllers if found guilty in a court case may be removed from office by the Judiciary as part of the sentence for a specified time.” It might save you arguments and disagreements in the future.

    Article 7 – I will post my comments in about 3 hours.

    Article 8
    I thought you had agreed to make calling a convention much easier I suggest – “which shall be called with the agreement of three members of Parliament, which shall include at least one member from each house”.
    Reisal
    Reisal
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 128
    Join date : 2014-08-04
    Location : Canada

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal Tue Aug 19, 2014 6:59 am

    Chancellor and President can be elected and re-elected. They have to sit out 1 term if they want to run for a third term. Then they can be elected and re-elected again, so on and so forth.

    Listen, we are spending way to much time on this. We've got the major ideas down and we don't need to fuss over what words we should and shouldn't use. Its good if we have the major ideas down, details can be sorted out after we establish a government.
    Vajorr
    Vajorr
    Global Force
    Global Force


    Posts : 159
    Join date : 2014-08-06
    Age : 24
    Location : Los Angeles, California, United States of America

    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr Tue Aug 19, 2014 8:15 am

    Talanzaar wrote:Chancellor and President can be elected and re-elected. They  have to sit out 1 term if they want to run for a third term. Then they can be elected and re-elected again, so on and so forth.

    Listen, we are spending way to much time on this. We've got the major ideas down and we don't need to fuss over what words we should and shouldn't use. Its good if we have the major ideas down, details can be sorted out after we establish a government.
    I agree, we can always amendment it. Plus the USA had more than constitution remember?

    Sponsored content


    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft - Page 4 Empty Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Fri Mar 29, 2024 9:43 am