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    The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

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    Kaevi
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:03 am

    Unovia Esamir wrote:
    Section 1-The Shared Founder
    The Shared Founder, known as The Designer, is an account that is controlled by New Zealand,Planita, Europe and Asia, New Tarajan, and Shirouma. As a Shared Founder, it is a rotating seat, meaning that any of these 5 nations may be on there at any time, usually identifying themselves when they post for the general population. As Founder, they have access to the Founder Powers, a control that can never truly be taken away, only limited by the Government in which the Founder serves.

    Should the constitution be so specific as to which five nations may work as The Designer? If one or more of the current Designer nations decides to leave the community or, for example, passes away, then we would need to hold another constitutional convention in order to refresh the five Designer nations. Also, this lacks the wording as to how a transfer of power from the original five would take place. I know that it is probably an appointed position and candidates are chosen by the remaining Designers in private, but wording to back this up would help to clarify how a nation becomes a Designer.

    Back to my first point, perhaps the section would read somewhat like this:

    Section 1-The Shared Founder
    The Shared Founder, known as The Designer, is an account that is operated by five chosen nations. Any of the five nations given access to The Designer may decide to give up the power of the The Designer, but the remaining members of The Designer must complete the process of appointing a nation to the vacant position within two months. Failure to do so within the set time period shall give power to the legislature to appoint a nation to the post with bicameral approval. As a Shared Founder, it is a rotating seat, meaning that any of the five nations may have access at any time, usually identifying themselves when they post for the general population. As Founder, they have access to the Founder abilities limited by the Government to which the Founder serves. A nation may have access to The Designer revoked with bicameral approval from the legislature.
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    Duresia
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Duresia on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:34 am

    Europe and Asia wrote:I'm against the founders not having governmental positions, at least for now. We don't have enough nations to exclude the founders and still fill all roles. It isn't feasible. Keep in mind, the majority of our regional population is puppets. I think government should be open to founders until we have enough people to fill the positions without them.

    I agree.
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    Reisal
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:38 am

    A limit of 2 founders in governmental positions.
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    Arveyres
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Arveyres on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:45 am

    How will we address the incident that occurred in the WA with nations that enter into agreements inducting their nations into other's realms (like how the Catham Islands entered Greater Marquette, and I entered the Tarajani Empire). Will we still be able to participate in parliamentary elections and what have you? I would just like to see something written that we are allowed to participate.
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    Eurasia
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:52 pm

    Talanzaar wrote:A limit of 2 founders in governmental positions.

    I object. You're assuming we're all power hungry. I thin our experience with Eurussia is screwing our vision, to an extent.
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    Reisal
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Wed Aug 13, 2014 1:56 pm

    Europe and Asia wrote:
    Talanzaar wrote:A limit of 2 founders in governmental positions.

    I object. You're assuming we're all power hungry. I thin our experience with Eurussia is screwing our vision, to an extent.
    Imagine a situation where the President and Parliamentary leader were both admins. Do you think this is fair to others, considering the power admins already have?
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    Vajorr
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:16 pm

    Albioncourt wrote:How will we address the incident that occurred in the WA with nations that enter into agreements inducting their nations into other's realms (like how the Catham Islands entered Greater Marquette, and I entered the Tarajani Empire). Will we still be able to participate in parliamentary elections and what have you? I would just like to see something written that we are allowed to participate.
    hmm... I think it would depend how integrated you guys are, if you merged into one country I guess you would have one vote
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    Eurasia
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:33 pm

    Talanzaar wrote:
    Europe and Asia wrote:
    Talanzaar wrote:A limit of 2 founders in governmental positions.

    I object. You're assuming we're all power hungry. I thin our experience with Eurussia is screwing our vision, to an extent.
    Imagine a situation where the President and Parliamentary leader were both admins. Do you think this is fair to others, considering the power admins already have?

    Considering the people who elected those people into power knew that they already had admin power, yes, I would call that fair. Like I said, keep in mind our powers don't extend to governmental affairs. Our purpose is to make sure the region functions smoothly outside of Roleplay.
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    Reisal
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Reisal on Wed Aug 13, 2014 4:46 pm

    Fair point. As long as we don't end up with a oligarchy I'm good.
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    New Tarajan
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by New Tarajan on Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:35 pm

    Albioncourt wrote:How will we address the incident that occurred in the WA with nations that enter into agreements inducting their nations into other's realms (like how the Catham Islands entered Greater Marquette, and I entered the Tarajani Empire). Will we still be able to participate in parliamentary elections and what have you? I would just like to see something written that we are allowed to participate.

    I believe this issue shall be addressed by the single countries involved case-by-case. For example, in the case of the Tarajani Empire, every country keeps its own positions. But for the others could be different. The important thing is to avoid situations like the Eurussia one, which took various opportunities to directly annex other countries.
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    Federation of Antanares
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Federation of Antanares on Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:41 pm

    Hello, it's a pleasure to see you all again. I think that the problem of the admins that held position of power into the role-play of the region, considering that we have five admins this time and that we must first elect them, it's a minor problem. They're five and I don't think we could have, with five of them, problem of dictatorship. Also, they are player, first of all, and limits their possibilities would limit their right to have fun. I don't think is necessary give a limit of the admins that could have position of power into Esamir.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Fascist Arkannia on Wed Aug 13, 2014 7:44 pm

    New Tarajan wrote:
    Albioncourt wrote:How will we address the incident that occurred in the WA with nations that enter into agreements inducting their nations into other's realms (like how the Catham Islands entered Greater Marquette, and I entered the Tarajani Empire). Will we still be able to participate in parliamentary elections and what have you? I would just like to see something written that we are allowed to participate.

    I believe this issue shall be addressed by the single countries involved case-by-case. For example, in the case of the Tarajani Empire, every country keeps its own positions. But for the others could be different. The important thing is to avoid situations like the Eurussia one, which took various opportunities to directly annex other countries.

    Wouldn't just be easier to have the puppets/smaller nations have a voice and then that voice is applied? They aren't fully annexed, they're just apart of a larger nation. Like if my upper Fascist Arkos, decides different from mine and the rest of my puppets, they should have a voice in the say.

    If I sound stupid, please excuse it I could just be confused entirely.
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    Duresia
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Duresia on Wed Aug 13, 2014 11:19 pm

    Fascist Arkannia wrote:
    New Tarajan wrote:
    Albioncourt wrote:How will we address the incident that occurred in the WA with nations that enter into agreements inducting their nations into other's realms (like how the Catham Islands entered Greater Marquette, and I entered the Tarajani Empire). Will we still be able to participate in parliamentary elections and what have you? I would just like to see something written that we are allowed to participate.

    I believe this issue shall be addressed by the single countries involved case-by-case. For example, in the case of the Tarajani Empire, every country keeps its own positions. But for the others could be different. The important thing is to avoid situations like the Eurussia one, which took various opportunities to directly annex other countries.

    Wouldn't just be easier to have the puppets/smaller nations have a voice and then that voice is applied? They aren't fully annexed, they're just apart of a larger nation. Like if my upper Fascist Arkos, decides different from mine and the rest of my puppets, they should have a voice in the say.

    If I sound stupid, please excuse it I could just be confused entirely.

    One vote per one actual person, not one vote per nation.
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    Eurasia
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Thu Aug 14, 2014 1:08 am

    Can we change the draft to remove the ban on founders in government then?
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    Unovia Esamir

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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Unovia Esamir on Thu Aug 14, 2014 4:16 am

    We can do that.
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    Vajorr
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:34 am

    In the constitution could we refer to the entire executive branch as a cabinet?
    How about we do things step by step.
    First lets do the Executive Positions first, describe their powers, jobs, etc. and finally write it out. To all nations PLEASE focus on the Executive Branch. We will deal with other stuff when we get to it.
    Thank you

    Positions

    • Shared Founder
    • Chancellor
    • President
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    Eurasia
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Thu Aug 14, 2014 6:50 am

    We aren't electing the shared founder. And this belongs in the proper forum.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vernius on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:07 am

    I'm not sure if you would want to put this in the Constitution itself, but perhaps there could be an IC neutral regional capital. That way, all of the regional organizations will be headquartered in neutral ground and nations can have a neutral place to mediate disputes.
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    Kaevi
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Kaevi on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:14 am

    Vernius wrote:I'm not sure if you would want to put this in the Constitution itself, but perhaps there could be an IC neutral regional capital. That way, all of the regional organizations will be headquartered in neutral ground and nations can have a neutral place to mediate disputes.

    I like the idea, but this would probably be better implemented as a legislative act similar to the U.S. Residence Act of 1790. I say this as putting the idea into the form of an act would allow the altering or movement of the capital without the need for a time-consuming amendment to the constitution.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:16 am

    Vernius wrote:I'm not sure if you would want to put this in the Constitution itself, but perhaps there could be an IC neutral regional capital. That way, all of the regional organizations will be headquartered in neutral ground and nations can have a neutral place to mediate disputes.

    Funny you mentioned that. I just proposed a new map that remedies that problem. I made an island Esamir Government territory, which would be recognized as international ground and owned bu no nation. Go to the map claims to see it. Here's a link to it: It's the red island on the right. Ignore the purple claim. That's for maps and isn't relevant here.
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    Eurasia
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:17 am

    Also, Kaevi has a good idea. It'd be better to have it through the legislative so it can be easily amended.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vernius on Thu Aug 14, 2014 11:52 am

    Nicely done, Europe and Asia. It looks good. I also agree with Kaevi; having it as a law would be easier all around.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Vajorr on Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:29 pm

    I also propose the Council of Ministers to be an official part of the Executive Branch
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by Eurasia on Thu Aug 14, 2014 3:36 pm

    Planita wrote:I also propose the Council of Ministers to be an official part of the Executive Branch

    Technically, they're members of the President or Prime Minister's Cabinet, so they're already executors.
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    Re: The Esamir Constitution-First Draft

    Post by North Macwick on Thu Aug 14, 2014 8:12 pm

    I have the following comments on your first draft for a constitution:

    Article I
    Section 1 The Shared Founder

    I agree with Kaevi and think that this clause should not name the 5 “Shared Founder Controllers” but just state there should be 5.

    I assume that that once someone has become a Shared Founder Controller it is for life or until they resign or are removed. This should be specified. This then opens the way for the method of removal either to be specified in the constitution or in legislation. If by legislation it will be important to pass this as quickly as possible after the legislature is elected.

    Is it expected that these Shared Founder Controllers also share the Root Admin account on the forum? If so it should be stated in the constitution.

    Article II The Legislature

    I assume both houses are elected. This needs to be stated.

    Can people register their puppets on the forum as separate accounts and do they all get a vote or is registration limited to one account for each RL person who has one vote?

    If you go for one account per RL person then somebody needs to be responsible for checking this and granting the forum rights to that person and denying it to their puppets. This is why some forums have citizenship that has to be applied for and granted.

    Section 3 The Council of Ministers

    I don’t understand why this exists. Wouldn’t it better if the Ministers were part of the Cabinet and appointed by the Chancellor?

    Recruitment is a responsibility of the Founder and WA Delegate so I don’t understand what a minister of Recruitment would do.

    If you had a Minister of Foreign Affairs they would be responsible for the Foreign Service – sending ambassadors to the forums of other regions and granting the setting up of embassies on this forum. To give this the WA Delegate I think makes that role huge especially if they consult and debate the WA proposals both on the NS forum and here.

    If you granted citizenships instead of allowing people to have as many accounts as they nation in the region you could give responsibility to the granting and removing it to a Minister of Home Affairs.

    I assume you don’t have a military and so don’t need a Minister of Defence or for Raiding.

    I don’t understand why you seem to have rejected Plantia’s idea for a Minister of Communications to run the newspaper.

    You could consider a Minister of Culture to organise events (like a party when there are 100 nations in the region or for annual anniversaries), games etc.

    There is reference to a General Election in Article III but not in Article I or II which I find strange. There is no definition of the time between General Elections and if they can be called early or if vacancies are filled by bye-election or some other method (more likely for your top up representatives if you go with that electoral system).

    Article III
    I don’t understand why you need 7 judges. I assume only one judge presides over a case. Lots of regions get by with 3 judges and put them into two courts, but your court of appeal may have more than one judge. I think these things should be specified in the constitution.

    Jury selection should be randomised. You could use http://www.random.org/. If your forum gave a member number to each person when they registered you could use this, or the judge assigns numbers to all the non-involved active people. If you are going to use a number generator you should state it in the constitution. Also it would be important that the puppets of those involved in the case don’t end up in the jury.

    Article V
    If amendments can be passed by a simple majority it should be specified in the constitution for clarity.

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